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Liero v1.0 – 91lt
IP: 80.216.199.107
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Cruel v0.96 – 50lt
IP: 69.255.183.244
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Liero v1.0 – 100lt
IP: 37.205.11.54
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Liero v1.0 – 100lt
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Liero v1.0 – 100lt
IP: 91.156.42.210
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Version: OpenLieroX 0.58 rc3

Players:

[Asrack]

Hermod you're totally wrong. There wasn't a one guy who made the Bible. Actually the Bible is a book which contains huge amount of smaller books.

In my opinion the best book there is Revelationbook(I'm pretty sure it has more official name in english, don't know it anyways).

Revelationbook forecasted the empire of Roma, Hitler's, Napoleon's etc. And so it does to the EU which is the last empire of the world before Jesus' 2nd coming. Like I've before told, we are now living the end beginning time (which could mean 100-200 years or one thousand, we can't know). Revelationbook in the Bible has proven that it can see a lot in our world.

The problem with that is, it was bound to happen. I can take a wild guess in the dark, write down something, and when it happens in the next 10,000 years, I could be a god. That doesn't mean it's true.

Take something like a mass murder, genocide if you will. "I think that in the next 8000 years, there will be a leader who will command his forces to destroy countless innocents for his pleasure. He will eradicate them by using a extreme knowledge on how to make people follow, and changing there mind". Exactly the samething. Does it mean I know it was going to happen, no. Will it happen? Maybe.

[Flaw]

Hermod you're totally wrong. There wasn't a one guy who made the Bible. Actually the Bible is a book which contains huge amount of smaller books.

In my opinion the best book there is Revelationbook(I'm pretty sure it has more official name in english, don't know it anyways).

Revelationbook forecasted the empire of Roma, Hitler's, Napoleon's etc. And so it does to the EU which is the last empire of the world before Jesus' 2nd coming. Like I've before told, we are now living the end beginning time (which could mean 100-200 years or one thousand, we can't know). Revelationbook in the Bible has proven that it can see a lot in our world.

The problem with that is, it was bound to happen. I can take a wild guess in the dark, write down something, and when it happens in the next 10,000 years, I could be a god. That doesn't mean it's true.

Take something like a mass murder, genocide if you will. "I think that in the next 8000 years, there will be a leader who will command his forces to destroy countless innocents for his pleasure. He will eradicate them by using a extreme knowledge on how to make people follow, and changing there mind". Exactly the samething. Does it mean I know it was going to happen, no. Will it happen? Maybe.

Yep.
If you want to find a meaning from something, you can usually do it. That's human mind for you.

[Gaston]

Gaston

1.No one nows when the end time will come! The bible is teling that he (Jesus) will come like a thief by night! So no one nows, and thats the whole point. If you dont know you have to be attentive always. If it would stand in the bible that Jesus will come year 2020 how would that be? I think the bible has writen so that many prophet will part in many centuries so all ppl have to be attentive.

Indeed noone knows. Yet so many christians seem to claim it. I saw the claim in the thread, and I was adressing it.

2. Its isnt as you say Gaston. That we just choose to belive. From the beginnig you think about it and tetsing it. It isnt like oo yes I will havea  secure way to heaven. I live my life to hounor God! Then its a bonuss that I will live for ever in heaven. The bible is talking about the perfect life style and thats how i want to live. I hope you dont see my as christian just beacuse im afraid from the unknow.

People do not choose to believe no. In that aspect you are right. However many people have a natural inclination to be intellectually lazy. Thus they will take the easy way out (assume popular morals without even studying what they are) e.g. they will call themself christian withouth knowing the bible they claim to believe in and it solves the mystery of death to them. I'm not saying you are. For all I know you could be studying to beceme a minister, but most christians do not even know what they profess to believe in, and that is serious intellectual dishonesty that I am very sure that YHWH (your God) will not appreciate in the end times.

3. The bible is the same as 3000 years ago. That is proved! They foudn some scrols on exactly the whole Old Testament 1947 in Israel. And the text is exactly the same translated as it is today! I think the scrols is on some museeum in Egypt or England!
And the old testament is the Jewish books that christians took from them beacuse Jesus came from the Juwish and there prophets told us about Jesus. And the New Testament was written in the yters 45-100 afte christ. The book was togheter under late 200 erly 300. And then they tok all the textes abut jesus: all the letters and taught very carfuly and took out those who is in it right now!

No. There may be a hebrew copy that matches the one found, but anyway it's more or less irrellevant, as the main message of the bible is the gospel of Jesus. This is of course not contained in the copy found that was 3000 years old. The mainsteram translation of the bible (the KJV version) is severely mistranslated. There are multitudes of people that have compared the hebrew scriptures available with the KJV version, and there are several mistranslations (especially regarding "everlasting" hell), and I suggest you look it up if you want to be more educated on what the original bible said.

You also mention how the gospels was picked. It's all fine that men (according to God, all men are fallible creatures, so why trust them?) handpicked what you should get to read in the bible, but you should also investigate what is not in the bible, but oculd have been there. Such as the Gospel of Judas and the Gospel of Thomas. Both very interesting books that may or may not give you a whole other perspective on the issue.

[Gaston]

Hermod you're totally wrong. There wasn't a one guy who made the Bible. Actually the Bible is a book which contains huge amount of smaller books.

In my opinion the best book there is Revelationbook(I'm pretty sure it has more official name in english, don't know it anyways).

Revelationbook forecasted the empire of Roma, Hitler's, Napoleon's etc. And so it does to the EU which is the last empire of the world before Jesus' 2nd coming. Like I've before told, we are now living the end beginning time (which could mean 100-200 years or one thousand, we can't know). Revelationbook in the Bible has proven that it can see a lot in our world.

Are you calling the EU an empire? It's hardly anything beyond a market-agreement between countries.

Revelationbook also speaks of Jesus with a swordtoungue. Do you believe that when armageddon occours (apparantly it's very soon, like it apparantly always have been...), Jesus will come and speak to us with his swordtoungue?

[Loke]

Gaston

1.No one nows when the end time will come! The bible is teling that he (Jesus) will come like a thief by night! So no one nows, and thats the whole point. If you dont know you have to be attentive always. If it would stand in the bible that Jesus will come year 2020 how would that be? I think the bible has writen so that many prophet will part in many centuries so all ppl have to be attentive.

Indeed noone knows. Yet so many christians seem to claim it. I saw the claim in the thread, and I was adressing it.

2. Its isnt as you say Gaston. That we just choose to belive. From the beginnig you think about it and tetsing it. It isnt like oo yes I will havea  secure way to heaven. I live my life to hounor God! Then its a bonuss that I will live for ever in heaven. The bible is talking about the perfect life style andthats how i want to live. I hope you dont see my as christian just beacuse im afraid from the unknow.

People do not choose to believe no. In that aspect you are right. However many people have a natural inclination to be intellectually lazy. Thus they will take the easy way out (assume popular morals without even studying what they are) e.g. they will call themself christian withouth knowing the bible they claim to believe in and it solves the mystery of death to them. I'm not saying you are. For all I know you could be studying to beceme a minister, but most christians do not even know what they profess to believe in, and that is serious intellectual dishonesty that I am very sure that YHWH (your God) will not appreciate in the end times.

3. The bible is the same as 3000 years ago. That is proved! They foudn some scrols on exactly the whole Old Testament 1947 in Israel. And the text is exactly the same translated as it is today! I think the scrols is on some museeum in Egypt or England!
And the old testament is the Jewish books that christians took from them beacuse Jesus came from the Juwish and there prophets told us about Jesus. And the New Testament was written in the yters 45-100 afte christ. The book was togheter under late 200 erly 300. And then they tok all the textes abut jesus: all the letters and taught very carfuly and took out those who is in it right now!

No. There may be a hebrew copy that matches the one found, but anyway it's more or less irrellevant, as the main message of the bible is the gospel of Jesus. This is of course not contained in the copy found that was 3000 years old. The mainsteram translation of the bible (the KJV version) is severely mistranslated. There are multitudes of people that have compared the hebrew scriptures available with the KJV version, and there are several mistranslations (especially regarding "everlasting" hell), and I suggest you look it up if you want to be more educated on what the original bible said.

You also mention how the gospels was picked. It's all fine that men (according to God, all men are fallible creatures, so why trust them?) handpicked what you should get to read in the bible, but you should also investigate what is not in the bible, but oculd have been there. Such as the Gospel of Judas and the Gospel of Thomas. Both very interesting books that may or may not give you a whole other perspective on the issue.

1.
Yes, its hard to discus beacuse for me its real that He is real and for you not to be real.

2.
YEs but many says that they are christian, much beacuse there parents are or their country "is".
And that isnt real christianity. You have to have your own belif build on experience! And for me you aint a christian just beacuse you say it. I think that you have to show it! To live the christian way of life! And if you are christian you dont want to do anything else than that!

3.
Hmm where can i read about KJV, havent heard about it before.

Yes i knwo about those! And many christian reads them. But again I think God was with those guys who put the bible togheter and blessed them to make the right chooises.

Thor!!
Its stupid to fell those comentary! You have no proof for that EU is the big empier! I was young once too:P and then i was very intersested in that and said like you. But it has allways been a new empire. Before Eu it was Soviet. ANd its says it will come many leaders that are evil, yes but you dont know how many more it will come! The whole revelations book is written in pictures that you can interpret to many different things!
The big prostitue today is the money! (I think) Everyone is steered of it!

No one nows when in the timeline Jesus will come back! It can be after armageddon. Maybe before. The book is so difficult to understand. And thats why you shouldnt dig in it so much! Its say that you will se when Jesus will come back liek the olivetree will bloom in the spring! So we christian will see. And today its much problem, much war naturedisasters and much more. BUT it has been bad thing happening before too. So we shouldnt make to much conclution that we say is proof! We who are beliving should be doing other things like go out to ppl and preach the happy word of God! That was Jesus last word! We should focus on that! 

 

[MissingNo.]

As much as I don't believe in the bible. Many stories are not just biblical.

Many stories have been recorded throughout history in many different religions and societies. For example: Noah's Ark was a story that was copied down in several different societies including Mesopotamian history.

Epic of Gilgamesh ftw.

Whether or not He/She/It is real, it's good to keep an open mind and think of new ideas along the way. In the Bible, it states that God loves everyone, yet in the Bible it also states he hated Esau.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1461-zPlcV8

[Gaston]

yEs but many says that they are christian, much beacuse there parents are or their country "is".
And that isnt real christianity. You have to have your own belif build on experience! And for me you aint a christian just beacuse you say it. I think that you have to show it! To live the christian way of life! And if you are christian you dont want to do anything else than that!

How do you know that you are a real christian? There are thousand different "sects" of christian dominations out there who all claim to believe differently and have the true message from God. How do you know that you didn't get it wrong when so many people who call themself "christian" would claim that you do?

3.
Hmm where can i read about KJV, havent heard about it before.

KJV = King James Version of the bible. It was a translation of the bible to English from Latin if my memory serves me right. It was several hundred years ago, and compared to hebrew scriptures it has several direct mistranslations that gives new meanings to what is said in the bible. There was also quite a motive for King James to have it mistranslated the way it was, so it may even be a version of YHWH's word that has been directly tampered with. Though almost no christians know about the history of the bible and how it came to be. Yet it is the most commonly accepted version of the bible, and is often claimed by fundamentalists to be the one true path to the lord.

Yes i knwo about those! And many christian reads them. But again I think God was with those guys who put the bible togheter and blessed them to make the right chooises.

What is your foundation for believing this? How would you have any indication of God leading them? Did you get this from the bible? From God? From the people who wrote the gospels? From those who selected them? And does this invalidate the concept of reading the alternative stories around Jesus? Wouldn't it be very educational to you in trying to understand how Jesus appeared through eyes that may not necessarily be holy? Shouldn't you try to understand your lord as best you can, and even try to understand how others sees the lord as well?

EDIT: Here's a link for an article you may find interesting. It also contains many good links fo this particulair subject: http://www.scarletmoon.co.za/articles/hell.htm

[Loke]

1

Yes i knwo about those! And many christian reads them. But again I think God was with those guys who put the bible togheter and blessed them to make the right chooises.

What is your foundation for believing this? How would you have any indication of God leading them? Did you get this from the bible? From God? From the people who wrote the gospels? From those who selected them? And does this invalidate the concept of reading the alternative stories around Jesus? Wouldn't it be very educational to you in trying to understand how Jesus appeared through eyes that may not necessarily be holy? Shouldn't you try to understand your lord as best you can, and even try to understand how others sees the lord as well?

Again! Its all belif! Its Gods book! Why wouldnt he lead them right? And those who put the book togheter is the head of their church and on that time the head of the church allays learnd from the once before them. So they are direct linked to the first apostles who was with Jesus!
I think i learn to understand God in those books who is in the bible! And i can understand other trough converstaions in todays society. Beacuse its a differnt soiciety today that it was before!

EDIT: Here's a link for an article you may find interesting. It also contains many good links fo this particulair subject: http://www.scarletmoon.co.za/articles/hell.htm

[Loke]

hmm somthing went wrong! :/ I will write it all down again ..

1.
A real christian belive that Jesus is Gods son! If thats the ground message, you can be a real christian. After that you can have different seen on other things! Like Catholiks and Protestans. THey both belive in Jesus as Gods son but they are doing it in different ways!
And if you are trying to follow the bible as much as you can and belive that Jesus is Gods son you are a christian! Its not very hard at al!

2.
Since the scroll is about 3000 years and the bible we read today is exactly the same. How can it then been misstranslated?  KJV isnt the bible i read!

3.
Again. Its all put to belif! I think like this: If it is Gods book that he want us to learn from. Why wouldnt he lead the ppl to put the right books in it?
And the ppl who put the bible to what it is today is the headppl of the church at that time. And they have been learning from the earlier headppl. That is a long line down to the first apostles who was with Jesus!

[Gaston]

1.
A real christian belive that Jesus is Gods son! If thats the ground message, you can be a real christian. After that you can have different seen on other things! Like Catholiks and Protestans. THey both belive in Jesus as Gods son but they are doing it in different ways!
And if you are trying to follow the bible as much as you can and belive that Jesus is Gods son you are a christian! Its not very hard at al!

So in your opinion, EVERYONE who believes Jesus is the son of God and accepts Jesus and YHWH as their lords, are christians? Are you sure that all theese christians will go to heaven, whereas the rest will go to hell? Are you secure in your mind that YHWH also sees it this way? What makes you so sure in case you think so?

2.
Since the scroll is about 3000 years and the bible we read today is exactly the same. How can it then been misstranslated?  KJV isnt the bible i read!

You should reread my post. The scroll that was found would only contain the old testamente. According to most theologians today, the new testamente contains YHWH's message to the people through the canons about Jesus. Which more or less make the old testamente relevant only through getting to know the history of the Jews, and what God has done for humans etc. e.g. even though it may in some way "prove" God's greatness and how divine the bible is etc, it doesn't prove that the New testamente hasn't been tampered with. I would also like to ask you of proof of this statement in regarding to the 3000 year bible. Would you have any sources I could check to verify that your claim regarding the unchangedness of the bible through the last 3000 years?

3.
Again. Its all put to belif! I think like this: If it is Gods book that he want us to learn from. Why wouldnt he lead the ppl to put the right books in it?
And the ppl who put the bible to what it is today is the headppl of the church at that time. And they have been learning from the earlier headppl. That is a long line down to the first apostles who was with Jesus!

Yes, I get all that, but WHY do you believe they were divine? You must have a reason. Surely you just didn't assume that a bunch of random people you don't know somehow were inspired by God to write what now supposedly should dictate your life. Or did you? There must be something more to it than just belief in some random people knowing what's best for you, right?

You also mention how the decidors where the descendants of the apostles of Jesus, but how does this make things anymore true? Several apostles of Jesus was far from perfect. Peter cut of the ear of a guard and denied Jesus 3 times. Judas betrayed Jesus, John was young and unexperienced during his time with Jesus, Thomas doubted the miracle of Jesus' ressurection. The list just goes on and on. And this is even according to the gospels you subscribe to, so what in the world makes theese people, and their descendants more credible than any other people in the world? They were humans just like you and I, and were prone to mistakes and "evilness" just like us. We are not perfect, and neither were they, so why believe that they submitted God's word perfectly to you?

[Oxygen]

This is what it boils down too. "Is religion real or a myth" Im only glad it's not "Intelligent design Vs. Evolution"

Why should I believe whats written in some old book? I can barely understand Shakespeare let alone some 2000-3000 year old scroll. People commonly make mistakes whilst reading Shakespeare so why could'nt these "Holy" documents also be misunderstood. The real truth is we shall never know. We're not gonna gain any head-way against devout catholics whose only form of defending their fairy tales is denial.

[[leke]LemonNinja]

That sounds a lot like what Hitler believed.

It sounds alot like what Hitler believed? It is what Hitler believed. Herr Schickelgruber was really of convinced social darwinism.

You want to hear my opinion? I actually hate all these discussions about religion and accepting others how they are, blah blah... Why can't you all just live like it feels good for you and others, so you don't have to waste your time with discussions that lead nowhere. You won't change your opinion about this very delicate topic because you read and answers posts. You either are religious or you aren't, the ideals you grew up with can hardly be modified.

[Drama]

Lemon I dont think the idea in this topic is to find answers or solutions. It's about changing opinions and getting new perspectives.  Personally I find this topic very interesting and it's interesting to see what kind of opinions have. Haven't posted anything about my experiences or opinions yet but I'm sure I will, at some stage.

[MissingNo.]

Lemon I dont think the idea in this topic is to find answers or solutions. It's about changing opinions and getting new perspectives.  Personally I find this topic very interesting and it's interesting to see what kind of opinions have. Haven't posted anything about my experiences or opinions yet but I'm sure I will, at some stage.

Indeed, that is exactly what I was thinking before you posted it.

hmm somthing went wrong! :/ I will write it all down again ..

1.
A real christian belive that Jesus is Gods son! If thats the ground message, you can be a real christian. After that you can have different seen on other things! Like Catholiks and Protestans. THey both belive in Jesus as Gods son but they are doing it in different ways!
And if you are trying to follow the bible as much as you can and belive that Jesus is Gods son you are a christian! Its not very hard at al!

2.
Since the scroll is about 3000 years and the bible we read today is exactly the same. How can it then been misstranslated?  KJV isnt the bible i read!

3.
Again. Its all put to belif! I think like this: If it is Gods book that he want us to learn from. Why wouldnt he lead the ppl to put the right books in it?
And the ppl who put the bible to what it is today is the headppl of the church at that time. And they have been learning from the earlier headppl. That is a long line down to the first apostles who was with Jesus!

The Bible has definitely been mistranslated. I have a gem for you that I read not too long ago.
The word for woman was mistranslated into the word virgin thereby making people believe that Jesus was born to a virgin mother.

[Snap]

i am Atheist Lesbien (i love women)


i don't belive in that bible mumbo jumbo or anything like that!!!

[Oxygen]

Lemon I dont think the idea in this topic is to find answers or solutions. It's about changing opinions and getting new perspectives.  Personally I find this topic very interesting and it's interesting to see what kind of opinions have. Haven't posted anything about my experiences or opinions yet but I'm sure I will, at some stage.

Indeed, that is exactly what I was thinking before you posted it.

hmm somthing went wrong! :/ I will write it all down again ..

1.
A real christian belive that Jesus is Gods son! If thats the ground message, you can be a real christian. After that you can have different seen on other things! Like Catholiks and Protestans. THey both belive in Jesus as Gods son but they are doing it in different ways!
And if you are trying to follow the bible as much as you can and belive that Jesus is Gods son you are a christian! Its not very hard at al!

2.
Since the scroll is about 3000 years and the bible we read today is exactly the same. How can it then been misstranslated?  KJV isnt the bible i read!

3.
Again. Its all put to belif! I think like this: If it is Gods book that he want us to learn from. Why wouldnt he lead the ppl to put the right books in it?
And the ppl who put the bible to what it is today is the headppl of the church at that time. And they have been learning from the earlier headppl. That is a long line down to the first apostles who was with Jesus!

The Bible has definitely been mistranslated. I have a gem for you that I read not too long ago.
The word for woman was mistranslated into the word virgin thereby making people believe that Jesus was born to a virgin mother.

Thank-you so much for that Vidar. I was wondering how Mary was a virgin when it said "They'd tried many times to conceive but failed" I've been confused by that for ages. +1 karmaz

[MissingNo.]

Lemon I dont think the idea in this topic is to find answers or solutions. It's about changing opinions and getting new perspectives.  Personally I find this topic very interesting and it's interesting to see what kind of opinions have. Haven't posted anything about my experiences or opinions yet but I'm sure I will, at some stage.

Indeed, that is exactly what I was thinking before you posted it.

hmm somthing went wrong! :/ I will write it all down again ..

1.
A real christian belive that Jesus is Gods son! If thats the ground message, you can be a real christian. After that you can have different seen on other things! Like Catholiks and Protestans. THey both belive in Jesus as Gods son but they are doing it in different ways!
And if you are trying to follow the bible as much as you can and belive that Jesus is Gods son you are a christian! Its not very hard at al!

2.
Since the scroll is about 3000 years and the bible we read today is exactly the same. How can it then been misstranslated?  KJV isnt the bible i read!

3.
Again. Its all put to belif! I think like this: If it is Gods book that he want us to learn from. Why wouldnt he lead the ppl to put the right books in it?
And the ppl who put the bible to what it is today is the headppl of the church at that time. And they have been learning from the earlier headppl. That is a long line down to the first apostles who was with Jesus!

The Bible has definitely been mistranslated. I have a gem for you that I read not too long ago.
The word for woman was mistranslated into the word virgin thereby making people believe that Jesus was born to a virgin mother.

Thank-you so much for that Vidar. I was wondering how Mary was a virgin when it said "They'd tried many times to conceive but failed" I've been confused by that for ages. +1 karmaz

k gib karma pl0x
lolol @ ur sarcasm

The point of what was said is that the Bible states that Jesus was born to a virgin though that's a mistranslation. Ignore my grammar mistakes pl0x.

[Spoon]

Would love to get some actual religious leaders in here. I used to have long conversations with the chaplain (priest) at my school when we were on the bus home - he lived on a school bus route so used that, he was a very realistic guy who was quite happy to challenge my preconceptions, and in many ways, test his faith against some of my arguments against religion.

I also went to a seminar arranged at my university a few weeks ago, by an Islamic ambassador, who basically spends his life travelling giving speeches to explain Islam. He gave speeches to the American troops before they went to war, to ensure they didn't go with misinformed ideas etc.

Having these conversations about faith just isn't the same when you do it with young people who are still learning their religion, people who have only thought into it as far as they've been taught. I'm not bashing the guys here holding up religion, just noting how some of your comments betray how you've only had your religion for the short time of your life, rather than the 40+ years you find in people who've dedicated their entire lives to it.

You might be surprised how the people I mention, the ones who've dedicated their lives to their religion, are actually less ''There is a God and the bible only makes sense if you believe and have faith!'' than the people here.

[Spectro]

[Evil AIM Man]

Let's all become Rukiites!

Well here it goes. I'm an atheist. Infact If I'm so far through being an atheist im nearly a satanist except I won't worship any of these personifications of emotions. Im also straight, rather meterosexual however...And let's get one thing straight...I HATE ALL RELIGIONS! There is a pit in the reaches of hell reserved for religion. I loathe religion with every fibre of my being and my cat's being. The reason I hate all religions so much is for a very personal matter that i'm not gonna talk about, but also because of the all the pain and suffering my family has been put through do to it. And all the pain of suffering off all the millions on the planet who live in fear due to extremists, and you may say "Christians don't harm anyone", but they have in the past, and they still do.

Now, let us look into the most sacred of books. The holy bible. The bible talks about a few of the follow points.
You must eat flesh and drink blood.
"Rip apart the pregnant women" is a line used in the bible.
It also refers to paedophilia, sadism and the sacrificing of animals.

Here's a good website with videos on the ILLusion of religion: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

I am very anti-religion so don't anyone dare flame me for this about how God loves me. Cause I sure as hell hate him.

Infact If I'm so far through being an atheist im nearly a satanist> Err, atheist = no religion. Not just no traditional religion, no religion. So being very atheist would make you very far from a satanist =\. Correct me if im wrong.