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Author Topic: The fact about LFR being the most boring level in the game - CHANGE THE DEFAULT  (Read 13305 times)

miikizzle

Unless it's bigger games, as 3 vs 3, 4 vs 4. You can't really do quality games 4 vs 4 in most of those decent maps named above. There are actually very few quality maps for 4 vs 4. LFr, Resort perhaps, what else is there? Mine of Midnight definitely looks good, but it's not very good gameplay, same goes for Haunted Mansion. Jail Break? I think LFr is still way better. Lieros of Carribbean was an often played map, but it isn't same quality either. Most of these maps lack a good balance between open air and walls, most have too much open air, while some are too tightly spaced.

I wouldn't care to play LFr 2 times, but it's true that classic and Liero factory (Lfm or Lfr) are played too often in some way. There just aint other good quality big maps.

True. But imo 3v3 in maps like fossil/fossil 2nd/snus etc. is totally playable. 4v4 is so rare that it doesn't really matter, and people can just play those in LFR anyway.
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Legend

There just aren't many. I like my own levels, but still, making Temple of Keijo the neutral round map would be a cruel joke.

But yeah. Since there aren't that many good 4vs4 maps out there, maybe make a good one? I sure could help drawing a layout, but graphic design isn't really my strong suit. But I'm sure there are people here who could help. Maybe make it a whole community project? Make a new thread and all, so that all can see the progress and help if they want. Maybe we even manage to build so great a map it is good enough to replace LFr? Ain't likely, but at least we would do something real rather than argue about it pointlessly here?
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miikizzle

Id rather call it discussing, and its not pointless :P well, discussing possibilities for 4v4 is, since there is none, but 3v3 and less, there is quite many..

But i'd also love to see a new good map to possibly challenge LFR, that would be cool
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Tafka

It's a lot easier to start with design and turn it into walls. It's kinda hard to create a design out of material image. Even so it wouldn't be hard to create material images if you already have front and back.

But there's been some projects like this earlier, don't remember name, but some map was where some players/clans created a small room each.

But that wouldn't work if you wanna make a good map. Good maps should start with good ideas also. Making a map with just random walls (like fossil, complex) or a house (most house levels) or something wouldn't turn successful. A good theme would always work better. Could also be something similar to LFr for all I care by theme, just different layout. Would always help to have good new levels for sure.

Jeff

Jeff, your point seems to be that for new players to have fun, the old players must play all different kinds of shit like Mario mod, Naruto, Magic Powers? So in order for 2 new players to stick around for more than 2 games, or they wouldn't have to make their own server with 15 bots, we would have to play mods the rest of us don't enjoy?
These are all cute thoughts, but you forgot that pretty much everyone of us has been one of those noobs who had been gettin beated like a mother****er on the servers when we first started.
This wasn't the point of my post. I'm not saying that we have to bow down and wash the feet of noobs entering a server or that we ourselves never had to face some challenging games when we first started.

Midnight's post reiterates my point more clearly:
There are many of old players who don't respect newbies. They even don't make a secret of that. Kicking is the first thing they do when they see a green worm called OpenLieroxor... Once accepted by Lx players they will learn how to play the classic mods of Liero. Because they want the attentiopn of others to say: Hi, I am new but look i want to play with u. Just look at Rox, if u have seen him. Totally new but trying hard to get better.

There is a bigger issue here that runs way deeper than changing the neutral set... this is about how the playerbase accepts new things--from players to mods.

But i'd also love to see a new good map to possibly challenge LFR, that would be cool
^This is the simple solution we need. This was all I was suggesting. Add some more stuff. Play the new stuff.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:03:51 am by Jeff »
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٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶

Want more versatility, so you get to play different maps? Let's form a high council of picked players, who vote for the neutral map of the month every month(i think we can all agree, classic mod is gonna stay anyway).. :D
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Lodur

Anyone remember that one map where all the popular maps were combined? That was a pretty sweet map we should start using it again  8)

Is there new players joining the game? I'd never kick em out but I dont think i've seen a noob in a while.
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When you reach max level you stop leveling

Gaston

This thread touches on a much broad topic IMO, and I have a few tings I feel are relevant to the conversation, so here's the deal:

LX is an old game, and most players have been playing for ages. Heck, I've played for about 9 years soon. What this means is that most of the remainig players just want to keep everything the same, and hope and pray that new people understand this and will practice for 2-3 years to get as good as the established community is on the settings we practiced forever. However, if I were new, I would have no incentive to invest such a large amount of time into a dying game with a community that is not open to change. Which again reinforces the dying aspect of the game. The conclusion of this? as far as OLX players are concerned, LFR will be played until the game dies.

So you may ask, what happens now?

Well, what happens is that LX as you know it will die a slow death (it has been doing so for years), and I predict within a few years few if any people will play the game we know today as LX. HOWEVER, all hope is not lost. The core mechanics of LX is solid, and could be a good platform for a new game rising from the ashes. It will not be a copy of LX though if it happens, but rather an evolution in a way were most everyone will have to relearn how to play the game, and get a new perspective on what real-time Liero could look and feel like with a brand new way of playing the game, and brand new mechanics, graphics, levels etc. And if it catches on, who knows what's next? Maybe a big online community full of fresh blood? It's possible, but for that to happen, we must all realize and accept, that if we keep going the way we have been going for abuot the last 10 years, nothing is going to change, and not only will LX as a game die, but also LX as a COMMUNITY will surely perish.
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26 Mars 2007
Belle: woah, is that a neatly snuck in sexproposition? Could I ask you to take of your pants?

Legend

Curious how all topics tend to end up in discussion about how this game is going to die soon. I thought this was about the 3rd round neutral setting, but all right then.

LX is what it is, and I don't think it should change. Sure, new players will have trouble understanding this community and practically the odds of hooking up new players are slim, if non-existent. Personally I don't care, I trust we can get some good matches still for the next two years, maybe. If the game is to die, then so be it.

Anyway, my suggestion to attract maybe a few active players more to this community if we get really lucky:

Dedicated servers. As they are, they are too versatile and new players will get uninterested pretty quickly, I think. At least if I were a new player, I would seek out LX probably because I knew liero from my childhood. What I would find in from the dedicated servers now would not please me, and I think I would delete the game outright. If I didn't know about original liero, pretty much the same thing. Nothing in this game would probably appeal to me.

So the dedicated servers are too versatile. Make it less so. I would host three dedicated servers.

1. Mortars at Castle Strike. Surely hooks plenty of players for a little while.
2. Rifles at Lamda Bunker. Should be pretty much the same.
3. Classic in LFr. More complex and less appealing, but through this new players would get some idea what the "pro" players usually play.

Obviously, the first two ded servers require mastering the combo. The welcome message in the server could direct new players to here LXA to some topic where is a comboing tutorial. Thus, LXA could potentially get more members and this community could enhance, well, slightly. This is a small community, so even 4-5 new players would be something. What I'm getting at is that there shouldn't be a wide range of played mods in a dedicated server. If the setting played is always the same, the new players have some chance to learn more quickly and perhaps even remain interested for a bit longer than they presently do. Moreover, I would actually like to play in these kind of ded servers myself, as they are, I get frustrated pretty quickly because some stupid setting is played more often than not.
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Flare

LX hasnt been really active since ~2006, back in the day there was always like +20 active servers.
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BlueTiger

The problem with that, however, is that the community will be split between 3 servers. It's bad enough trying to get everyone in one dedi-server. As well as that, servers cost. I can understand wanting to play the same mod over and over, but doing the same with the map is just stupid. Mortars is way better on Wormmountain, we've already established Classic LFR is utter bullcrap and who even played Lamda Rifles anymore?

I feel the best solution is to make servers more user-friendly. Of course, we all know how to work Kurko's, but there's only rifles/classic there, which everyone here seems to just own noobs with one hand tied behind their back. HVLPalace is an alternative with much more variety and much more entertainment for newer player, but alas, Temari has not yet implemented his new voting system (and therefore most games are shitty HVL or Ketchup, lol).

Anyway, the best thing would be to make a server with Kurko's style voting system, but make it a tonne more user friendly, e.g.
!maps = only the best maps and maybe have the best sets ... so, it could come up with Mine of Midnight, and then say best played with rifles, wh40k, classic, and Castle Strike and then Mortars.
!allmaps just comes up with the list you have now
!mod -> !set because it isn't really a mod, is it?
Have the server spam you saying "Type !help to see map, set, and other commands!".

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Roar!

٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶

we've already established Classic LFR is utter bullcrap and who even played Lamda Rifles anymore?

Who has established classic lfr is utter bullcrap? :D I've only seen the opposite posts, for example from Legend :P

 Classic LFR is ****ing brilliant even after all the gamephysics changes.
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Tafka

The problem with that, however, is that the community will be split between 3 servers.
The idea keijo proposed was to create it for new players, not for the whole community. Not like all the old players are gonna play only there and can't join from classic server to lamda one.

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Mortars is way better on Wormmountain,
Mortars are shit everywhere. Good for rookies to start with though.

Quote
we've already established Classic LFR is utter bullcrap
Since when? The idea was to give variety, everyone pretty much agreed it was one of the best levels

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and who even played Lamda Rifles anymore?
Does it matter who plays it? It is only shit thanks to OLX right now. But the point is that due to the way the level is built up, you only need to aim straight or up to get a few kills. It's easy for new players to start with, your bullets make good damage even if you don't know how to move around and doesn't require good aiming skills to get a few kills there. Before you were born and mortars weren't IN, everyone before that started with rifles, 2003-2004 lamda 90% of the games. It wasn't annoying for oldies to kill new players, made it easy, while newbies could get a few kills as well if they knew how to shoot.
Quote
I feel the best solution is to make servers more user-friendly. Of course, we all know how to work Kurko's, but there's only rifles/classic there, which everyone here seems to just own noobs with one hand tied behind their back. HVLPalace is an alternative with much more variety and much more entertainment for newer player, but alas, Temari has not yet implemented his new voting system (and therefore most games are shitty HVL or Ketchup, lol).

Anyway, the best thing would be to make a server with Kurko's style voting system, but make it a tonne more user friendly, e.g.
!maps = only the best maps and maybe have the best sets ... so, it could come up with Mine of Midnight, and then say best played with rifles, wh40k, classic, and Castle Strike and then Mortars.
!allmaps just comes up with the list you have now
!mod -> !set because it isn't really a mod, is it?
Have the server spam you saying "Type !help to see map, set, and other commands!".
You have a lot of best ideas.


The idea what keijo proposed (as from what I understood) is to make a a few servers for different kind of rookies, who join the game, but can't play in private hosted servers with lots of oldies - the rookies would get bored of dieing and oldies would get bored of killing rookies. With those dedi servers they'd have a place where they can practice and also get an idea of what the rest of the community plays - rifles, classic, mortars. To learn LX step by step. Also when rookies join servers they usually demand their own settings.

It would be a nice idea, but the current dedi servers don't get too much visits often, only when nobody else can host around. Even by noobs not too much.
There's very very small % of people who stick around that try this game, so making drastic changes for them would probably be a waste of time. Who do you know that started LX in 2013 is still around?

To get LieroX active you'd need to offer the rookies what we enjoy about this game also - competition, community, for the most part. I wouldn't give a shit about LX if I didn't know the other players, and it would lose interest as well if there was no competition in this game.
The way current players mostly started was back in 2003-2004, when everyone were relatively new to this game, so you started learning rifles and there were a lot of other same skill level as you, who you'd compete against, as well as some great players to look up to.
The other part is from 200* (whenever mortars became a thing) and everyone were relatively new to the mortars deal, so there was a lot of mortar clans and new players who would compete with each other.

Right now, if a rookie comes, he isn't a part of the community and doesn't have any competition. I would be glad to help someone learn a few things of LX if they made a thread with a nice introduction to LXA, making friends is first thing that keeps you to this game. It's only logical you wouldn't care much about someone who you don't know at all and is boring to play with. Attitude is also a good plus for those.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 07:44:51 pm by Tafka »
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Tafka



Just to prove my point quickly - if they are not a part of the community, they wont be sticking around.

Gaston

Curious how all topics tend to end up in discussion about how this game is going to die soon. I thought this was about the 3rd round neutral setting, but all right then.

I'm bringing it up because I feel the lfr classic pehnomenon is a huge telltale of how stale the community has grown. There is no evolution in the game or the community anymore. I guess I just want to bring it up because I like the community but I feel we are shooting ourselves in the foot with our attitude towards what the game is supposed to be what it isn't supposed to be. But I guess that wont change.
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26 Mars 2007
Belle: woah, is that a neatly snuck in sexproposition? Could I ask you to take of your pants?

Thor

IMO it's not a miracle, that today's children who are in the exactly same situation that we were 10 years ago aren't interested or fall love in a game where we did about 10 years ago.

It's just like companies need to relapse all the time. Especially us Finnish people know what happened to Nokia when they took root in old systems without even trying to relapse. Same has happened to LX, though some authorities in our community have tried to do some new things but they have been pretty big flops - no offence.

But, like old people tend to say: one likes mother, one daughter.
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BlueTiger

Lol before I was born. My first multiplayer game of LieroX was on LF(original I think, but I can't remember details) classic. I'm at least 90% sure, it might have been a similar mod like that 'fire' one which people used to play. I just prefered Mortars back then due to my young mind. And I said "who plays lamda anymore" not "who plays lamda", so you basically just backed my point.

Btw, you need 2 or more noobs at ONE TIME to get one of those servers going. And to have 3 of them is a complete waste of money. Maybe, just maybe, if we get this game greenlighted, it will be an idea. However, none of you are getting off your asses to make that video and SorZ hasn't came back with the conclusion from his brother.
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Legend

What I would also like to highlight is that in my opinion this is absolutely extraordinary and astonishing that this game has the community and activity it still has. If someone told me in 2006 I would still be playing this game eight years later I would have laughed out loud. We have a really nice community here and that's something we should be proud of, instead of announcing an imminent and certain death to this game is inevitably approaching if massive changes are not made really soon. Of course it might be true, but I also think it's only natural. We have really maximized the potential of this game, and if we have now reached the point where we cannot attract new players and the community will eventually perish, well again, then so be it. As romantic as it may be to talk about great efforts to save this game and community, I think it's all futile. Well, perhaps Steam could make things happen, but that is something I'm rather skeptic about. I like the community as it is.
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٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶

Yeah, we'll see what happens.. If we would be able to join steam and many players will come.. We would be like teamliquid is for starcraft or something similar :P
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Boomboy



Just to prove my point quickly - if they are not a part of the community, they wont be sticking around.

The first four month of 2013 have less new members than the first four months of 2014....

It seems that our mild attempts at repopularizing liero (even if it is a forum post here or there) is working......slightly.

Lets wait till summer comes and what it brings.
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