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Author Topic: Some things missing from original..  (Read 476 times)

dksvertix

Some things missing from original..
« on: May 03, 2012, 02:03:29 am »
I noticed, or I'm just blind, that there is no HP multiplier in this version of Liero.
Some weapons are too strong and 1-Hit-KO occurs way too often, so to balance this issue I set HP to "600%".
Where is this function?

The other thing I noticed, was the sound effect flood, not present in original Liero - if loading time is 0 and one pulls a trigger then my ears blow off. Limiting the sound effect playback frequency to bearable would be nice, otherwise I can not enable sound at all.

Also, one thing that's not from original, but from OpenLiero: resizable window - why am I limited to a tiny window, when playing in window mode?

OLX's Blood Amount 500%, 5000% VS Liero's 500% - why only few drops of blood? In Liero, 500% creates a nice bloodbath effect. In OLX... I expected more from 5000% than just few drops.

Finally, why force Player respawn time? In original Liero, you can manually choose, when to spawn yourself to prevent starting in a deathtrap/mess.
Allow manual spawning and set the timeout for autospawn to optional.


There are three things about OLX that I actually do like and why I chose this instead of original: Tougher AI, support for mods/new better and interesting weapons and no weapon jamming in case of out of memory.

Now, if anybody cared to fix those 5 issues, then that would be awesome.
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Ruki

Re: Some things missing from original..
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 03:53:29 am »
Eh, calm down, dude, you are not making as much sense as you probably think you do. I believe by "original" you are refering to DOS Liero. Sorry to break it to you but OpenLieroX is not a version of Liero, it is a copy, a clone, a remake, what ever you call it. It is even developed from an earlier game which was named Liero Extreme (or LieroX in short) so not everything is or will be the same as in Liero for DOS. In OLX you can change mods which means how strong a certain weapon is depends of the mod. You can create your own custom mod or you can ban certain overpowered instagib weapons if you don't like some, but nobody will be changing the Liero v1.0 or Classic mod today. It's not a great solution but you can delete the annoying sound or replace it in your OLX folder if it bothers you that much. About blood... I don't know about you but whenever I set blood ammount to maximum in my OLX whole level got all red by the end of the round. The last thing you are talking about, player respawn time. Why force it? Because OLX is a multiplayer game, it was designed mostly for online gaming. Now imagine a player who dies and doesn't want to respawn until everyone else is either out of the game or in their last live so he could finish them off and win the game. Sounds stupid, right?

OLX is not Liero, it is not a 100% copy of it and it never will be. Stuff you have listed are not really issues so they most likely won't get changed but you can feel free to give out more suggestions to the developers, some might interest them. There is also LieroX v2 in development, you can find more about it on the website: http://lierox2.com/
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 03:57:53 am by Ruki »
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albert

Re: Some things missing from original..
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 05:27:11 am »
Some of the things you are talking about are already fixed in the latest beta (0.59 beta10).

E.g.:

* blood amount is different/improved, physics are little bit different and overall amount increased
* you can disable automatic forced respawn completely (btw., that makes much sense as long as you have infinite lives and most other FPS have such option)

Then, instead of playing the Liero mod, try the Promode mod which might more what you want. Esp the physics in that mod are more close to the original Liero (despite being a bit faster).

The network play in 0.59 is somewhat broken right now, though.

Some other functions are already in the version you are probably using (I guess latest 0.58). E.g. you can have a damage factor and a shield factor (or called sth like that). It will result in a somewhat annoying animation though (circles around your worm), maybe I'll replace that with something better later.
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kokbira

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Re: Some things missing from original..
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 06:07:29 am »
are you trying to play using 0.59 beta 10 or 0.58 rc3?
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dksvertix

Re: Some things missing from original..
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 07:36:09 am »
Ahh, ok then, and I thought this actually WAS trying to make original Liero better. Well, guess I have to still stick with the "real" Liero then, while I rewrite this one to suit my needs, or even write a totally new version using your and other codes as examples. Never know, what new ideas time will bring.

Hmm, but I noticed one more thing to mention, mega annoyance you or any sane programmer should NEVER do:
Use My Documents as your trash bin - it's a place for MY documents and not YOUR garbage dump.

I've noticed that so many programmers deny this fact and now My Documents is being targeted as a storage for crap - useless files, logs, configs and critical installation data, that shouldn't even be in there. I had to abandon My Documents, since that wasn't "My" anymore and create a separate folder for my real belongings.
Oh, how I miss the good old days, when all data was kept only inside program's own installation folder... no registry corruption, no dependency on %AppData% or %HomePath%...  :-[
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Ruki

Re: Some things missing from original..
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2012, 08:17:07 am »
Ahh, ok then, and I thought this actually WAS trying to make original Liero better. Well, guess I have to still stick with the "real" Liero then, while I rewrite this one to suit my needs, or even write a totally new version using your and other codes as examples. Never know, what new ideas time will bring.
In the very beginning that was the idea indeed but you are almost 10 years late as the development has totally drifted away from Liero for DOS  :)
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Kurko

Re: Some things missing from original..
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2012, 09:45:36 am »
Ahh, ok then, and I thought this actually WAS trying to make original Liero better. Well, guess I have to still stick with the "real" Liero then, while I rewrite this one to suit my needs, or even write a totally new version using your and other codes as examples. Never know, what new ideas time will bring.

Hmm, but I noticed one more thing to mention, mega annoyance you or any sane programmer should NEVER do:
Use My Documents as your trash bin - it's a place for MY documents and not YOUR garbage dump.

I've noticed that so many programmers deny this fact and now My Documents is being targeted as a storage for crap - useless files, logs, configs and critical installation data, that shouldn't even be in there. I had to abandon My Documents, since that wasn't "My" anymore and create a separate folder for my real belongings.
Oh, how I miss the good old days, when all data was kept only inside program's own installation folder... no registry corruption, no dependency on %AppData% or %HomePath%...  :-[

But now that most people use Windows 7 or Vista saving logs and configs to the program installation folder may become a problem since programs don't have write permissions to certain folders (Program Files for example) by default.* You would either have to run the program with administrative rights (not recommended), change those folder permissions (NOT recommended) or install the program somewhere else. This has always been the case on Linux.

There are other user folders than My Documents which could be used for configuration files but the documents folder was probably chosen to make accessing screenshots easier.

*(Ok, there is always UAC file system virtualization but it's meant to be a workaround for legacy programs.)

And how about multi-user systems? Saving configuration files to users' own folders makes it easier for each user to have their own settings.

But if you still want to have your configs in the program folder (like I do, due to having multiple versions on the same computer), read this:

http://www.openlierox.net/wiki/index.php/VFS


Btw, if you're going to make another Liero clone, it would be nice to have online multiplay in OpenLiero (now Liero 1.35). It's open source so you can use it as a code base. I think there was a hack for OpenLieroX ("Liero Orthodox" or something) that allowed playing original Liero/Openliero online but it didn't work very well.

http://liero.be/
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 09:58:19 am by Kurko »
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albert

Re: Some things missing from original..
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2012, 04:20:11 pm »
Ahh, ok then, and I thought this actually WAS trying to make original Liero better. Well, guess I have to still stick with the "real" Liero then, while I rewrite this one to suit my needs, or even write a totally new version using your and other codes as examples. Never know, what new ideas time will bring.
In the very beginning that was the idea indeed but you are almost 10 years late as the development has totally drifted away from Liero for DOS  :)

It was? I thought LX has different physics by purpose. Gusanos was actually more a try to be close to the original (but still much extended and much more modable). But it was less popular for other reasons. And of course it depends on the mod. The physics are after all more original Liero like. And mods like Promode share many original weapons in a somewhat more modern and typical Promode (as in other games) way. And then there is also OpenLiero which is a quite exact clone of the original.

I've noticed that so many programmers deny this fact and now My Documents is being targeted as a storage for crap - useless files, logs, configs and critical installation data, that shouldn't even be in there. I had to abandon My Documents, since that wasn't "My" anymore and create a separate folder for my real belongings.
Oh, how I miss the good old days, when all data was kept only inside program's own installation folder... no registry corruption, no dependency on %AppData% or %HomePath%...  :-[

User-dependent app data (such as configs) should never go into the global application directory. It depends on the user. (I'm not sure if I really should try to explain these basics here. That is just how it is supposed to work.) It should actually go to %AppData% (the name says it already) instead of %MyDocs%. We decided earlier for %MyDocs% because it can be important for a user to find that directory (e.g. to edit the config or to place downloaded levels/mods in it). Also, at that time, I found that this was common for other games. Maybe %AppData% would be a better decision now and I was already thinking about changing that (however, that can again cause confusion now, etc.).

Btw., if you really don't like this, this is all configureable. Move the OpenLieroX directory from My Documents to where you want it. Maybe, if you want, just merge it with the OpenLieroX application directory and make that directory writeable for your main user. Then edit the cfg/options.cfg. Under FileHandling, the searchpaths are defined. The first search path is also the path where OLX will write to. So just put your favorited directory there. E.g., maybe you just want to put ${BIN} (which is the directory of the exe) there. This would behave like a portable app then (a portable app is mostly what you are missing from "the good old days" - the program and all its configs merged together).

Another note: The application directory of OLX was always self-contained. There aren't any critical installation data anywhere else. You can just remove OpenLieroX from My Documents and OLX will run normally (just with a completely cleaned/reset profile).

Also read the post from Kurko. And the linked VFS wiki page for more information about how the search path system / the VFS works and in what way you can configure it.

Btw, if you're going to make another Liero clone, it would be nice to have online multiplay in OpenLiero (now Liero 1.35). It's open source so you can use it as a code base. I think there was a hack for OpenLieroX ("Liero Orthodox" or something) that allowed playing original Liero/Openliero online but it didn't work very well.

http://liero.be/

The source can be found here: http://code.google.com/p/liero/

It's quite nice to read. And the physics are really simple. The earlier hack in OLX to include OpenLiero was really ugly and was removed. But I thought of adapting the physics somehow in another way as a simple OLX mod, i.e. the original DOS Liero directory would act as an OLX mod.

If you want to extend OpenLiero to add network support or so, you should speak with Gliptic (Erik Lindroos). He is the main developer behind the project and he can help you a lot. (Gliptic is also one of the main developers of Gusanos, btw.) He is also a quite nice/friendly guy. He often hangs out on #liero @quakenet (as well as other main people of the Liero community, e.g. Joosa Riekkinen, etc.).

If you want to extend OLX to include the OpenLiero physics (or like I said: as a possible mod engine), I would be very interested in that. I can introduce you to the OLX code if you want.
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kokbira

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Re: Some things missing from original..
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2012, 04:21:34 pm »
Hmm, but I noticed one more thing to mention, mega annoyance you or any sane programmer should NEVER do:
Use My Documents as your trash bin - it's a place for MY documents and not YOUR garbage dump.

I've noticed that so many programmers deny this fact and now My Documents is being targeted as a storage for crap - useless files, logs, configs and critical installation data, that shouldn't even be in there. I had to abandon My Documents, since that wasn't "My" anymore and create a separate folder for my real belongings.
Oh, how I miss the good old days, when all data was kept only inside program's own installation folder... no registry corruption, no dependency on %AppData% or %HomePath%...  :-[

Hey, you can portabilize OpenLieroX, so all files can be on the same folder without "infecting" My Documents (I vote to do it as default).

Download my portable OLX solution, 0.58 rc3 (more stable one) here on Filebase (the portable solution is on description / there you will find the link on my Skydrive, since Filebase does not support large files):
http://www.openlierox.net/forum/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=5746
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My wife's blog (http://garotaromantica11.blogspot.com)
Play OpenLieroX (http://openlierox.net)
Use portable apps with LiberKey (http://liberkey.com)
Ask super users (http://superuser.com)
Ask programmers (http://stackoverflow.com)
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