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Author Topic: Competetive Play in LX  (Read 13861 times)

Spoon

Competetive Play in LX
« on: June 24, 2009, 04:53:50 am »
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'KJack.mp3

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2009, 07:35:09 am »
The reason i dont play lx anymore is cause it doesnt have any depth. Its so plain.
Here is what i would do to make this gamer more competetive/deep.

Add PICKUPS!
Really, add fixed health and armor pickups on map (is not chosen in the ingame options, all this infoo must be on the map). And add weapon pickups!

Start with one weapon!
If you die you shouldnt be at an advantage right after, its silly. This should make for more tactical gameplay.

Add Field of view!

Make so you only see what the "character" actually can see!!
This will add much to how games is played. Prediction, map knowledge and positioning will be important!

Add directional sound!
This is a simple one, its a must.

I probably missed something..

As some know I come from games like UT and Quake, so I think this is standard for good games.
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Lablad

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2009, 08:19:33 am »
Hell , arent there pickups : |  just put bonuses on ?

And the weapons loading after you die HAS been a feature somewhere along the line ?

Field of view ? LX is played with your eyes on  the screen AND the MINIMAP . This requires no field of view as you  mean it , if it would be only a thin ****ing sector , people would just lurk around the corners and so on , not moving at all , fearing that they would get to someones aim. and then if someone manages to hack that shit ?....no , this one is needless.

About sound i cant say a shit....i have never used LX sounds , theyre annoying bleeps  , and all the oldschool guys use music on the background anyway.




And for Spoon , this really HAS been the topic of many other discussions as well , and as far as Competitive gaming went , the Battlecry - attempt has been the closest to that....but really , it shouldnt be a big  thing , neither would it need to be perfect or large - scale in the beginning ....if it would just HAPPEN.

I will try to make people join forces to achieve that anyway , because as everyone knows , i LIKE competitive playing
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'KJack.mp3

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2009, 11:05:59 am »
Hell , arent there pickups : |  just put bonuses on ?

And the weapons loading after you die HAS been a feature somewhere along the line ?

Field of view ? LX is played with your eyes on  the screen AND the MINIMAP . This requires no field of view as you  mean it , if it would be only a thin ****ing sector , people would just lurk around the corners and so on , not moving at all , fearing that they would get to someones aim. and then if someone manages to hack that shit ?....no , this one is needless.

About sound i cant say a shit....i have never used LX sounds , theyre annoying bleeps  , and all the oldschool guys use music on the background anyway.




And for Spoon , this really HAS been the topic of many other discussions as well , and as far as Competitive gaming went , the Battlecry - attempt has been the closest to that....but really , it shouldnt be a big  thing , neither would it need to be perfect or large - scale in the beginning ....if it would just HAPPEN.

I will try to make people join forces to achieve that anyway , because as everyone knows , i LIKE competitive playing

This is why I hate lx community, ingorant and conservative.
Random health bubbles isnt that same as pickups.
Pickups are there so there is something else to the game then just killing, its supposed to have item management, try to get more health and armor then the other, fight over pickups.
You obviously havent played a real game if you dont know how important pickups are in a deathmatch game.
And spawning with weapons reloaded is just stupid, makes no sense. You should spawn with a standard weapon then you hunt for other.

And I want the minimap to go away! it ruins gameplay, you dont need any map knowledge.... You should award the player for smart moves that takes the enemy by suprise.

Oh well..
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 11:11:41 am by 'KJack.mp3 »
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Captain Nack Sparrow

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2009, 11:34:36 am »
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nsg

'KJack.mp3

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2009, 11:39:29 am »
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Lablad

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2009, 11:52:48 am »
KJack , you wholly lack the " player perspective "  in this , eventough you claim to be a player.
Those improvements you mentioned wouldnt just work , not without REEEAALLLY radical changes.


Pickups that need to be fought over ? The ones claiming all the precious stuff would be the best runners , who are hated already.

Awards for smart moves ? Get a grip man , the only way to win a top-notch duel is to do something the enemy doesnt suspect , or to do something so well that he cant do a shit about it even if he knows whats coming.
It makes the game even more rewarding.
Prediction , map knowledge  , positioning ? You seriously say that these arent important factors already?...you dont really know a shit about playing this game ??
I have never played with skills , but with just these , and have done just well.


That Field Of View Idea is really  bullshit , it would just be plain bad idea. And ruin all the pace in the game



PS. I do have played lots of such games :UT , Battlefields , CoD s 1-4 .. ... and actively even
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 11:55:43 am by Lablad »
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'KJack.mp3

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2009, 12:06:26 pm »
KJack , you wholly lack the " player perspective "  in this , eventough you claim to be a player.
Those improvements you mentioned wouldnt just work , not without REEEAALLLY radical changes.


Pickups that need to be fought over ? The ones claiming all the precious stuff would be the best runners , who are hated already.

Awards for smart moves ? Get a grip man , the only way to win a top-notch duel is to do something the enemy doesnt suspect , or to do something so well that he cant do a shit about it even if he knows whats coming.
It makes the game even more rewarding.
Prediction , map knowledge  , positioning ? You seriously say that these arent important factors already?...you dont really know a shit about playing this game ??
I have never played with skills , but with just these , and have done just well.


That Field Of View Idea is really  bullshit , it would just be plain bad idea. And ruin all the pace in the game



PS. I do have played lots of such games :UT , Battlefields , CoD s 1-4 .. ... and actively even

Well this shows what I mean. I don't care really, I'm already playing another competitive (not with competitive mind, but competitive). I was just throwing it out there and this is how the general lx community will take it. Lx IS plain, it IS boring after some time. Because this game has no DEPTH. The game has to evolve its game play if its to get a bigger and sustainable crowd.
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Lablad

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2009, 12:47:25 pm »
And you are taking our comments as negatively as you can.


LX can achieve more depth , just not with those improvements you suggested.
More of this in OLX developement topics and allover the OLX support board...
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pelya

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2009, 12:53:27 pm »
All the stuff you're talking about KJack is rather easy to implement, but that again, there are lot of new megaleet features in Beta9 which noone uses anyway. They won't change the game radically.
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Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2009, 01:26:47 pm »
It's rare that I agree with Mister Luffy.

But this time I think he said it all very well from the view of competitive player.

The ones who developes the game, are rarely players from top of the competitive playing.

LX V. 0.56 had everything what we competitive players need and want if we talk about playability. Wich is most important factor in LX. Only all bug's should be removed etc little things. But game itself is great.

All extra features and others stuffs won't do any difference. All that world best LX players want's to do is compete in LX. The game that has amazing playability and isn't only mongo rushing, needs very skilled teamwork and different kind of gamingstyles and also experience.
Old rusty grandpapa can still come to play and challenge top contenders by using experience gained from many wars.

Here I mean players who are able to play on top level. That's actually what makes LX so addicting, to try to be better than all the others. CW world is pretty much about trying to prove your superiority towards others.

And even so often LX is flamed to be campy and runny piece of sheiccse game. Normally the whiners are the losers, who just don't get a grip of competitive playing in LX. They just like the gaming and want to play in relaxing atmosphere and go fight without any tricks, just to see 1vs1 who beats what ever comes in front of them. So called "honourable" playing

Playing in top level, needs very much and very versatile skills. Yes, you need to be able to do some running, camping, and so called GREAT LX playing wich  means calm agression, where you do everything faster than your opponent, good attacks and teamwork is key to victory in the top level.
In meeting of top clans. It's a lot also mentally battle. Little pissing off opponents and making opponent weak.

That just war between clans. That's what competitive players loves in their own circle. Competition and to kick ass and proove that HERE I AM AND I DO PWN!

Atleast for the ones who loves the competition in LX and knows what I am talking about.

There are different kind of clans in this game, clan ain't forced to jump into competitive world wich is filled with "lame" things. But something that outsiders of the competitive world don't know.
Is that we who love competition also respect silently our opponents. Despite we don't show it, there is great amount of respect even between rival clans.

Ofcourse there is also expections whos only motivation is to spoil others joy, but those clans are fastly forgotten.

LX is only game for me wich I have played and never totally got boored. I barely play others games. It offers great option from other games and is good as it has been now 5 years.

Well I apreciate still peoples who does work to make game better and work better. But don't forget the thing that made and keeps the game so popular.

LX is also game where you can gain fame by not taking part to competitive gaming. You can take a role of being "above" of competition. Good example is RIP clan. Very respected clan wich spits on the competitive clans.

They wouldn't still be here without all these morons, what ever they say. All of us want's to feed our own ego's in some way. And for some reason LX offers great possibility to do that in gaming world.

But any little special features won't make it better. Thank's to Worms, thanks to creativity of Molez and Liero coders, thanks to genuinity of JasonB. We have here good simple networkgame wich works fine. And can offer many kind of feelings for players who likes the game.

Or possibility for peoples to use their own creativity as LX is very moddable in all possible ways.

Thank's to ones who want's to keep up community wich is the soul of everything.

Good packet we have here. If you don't like LX, it's fine. You can say it and tell how it could be better.

But I just wanted to tell that it's important game already for many peoples. And it will not die without new features. Anyways Key of everything is good playability and moddability.

Sakmongkol

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2009, 02:38:54 pm »
You obviously havent played a real game if you dont know how important pickups are in a deathmatch game.

I think this is where a lot of you (or KJack at least) are going wrong. You are trying to make LX into a 'real' deathmatch game, and make the gameplay follow some trends in newer and fancier and more popular games. That is just wrong, LX is LX, and it is perfectly functional with the gameplay it has. It is even quite unique at that.

I'll say again what I have said a couple of times before: LX is built wrong from the very beginning to ever make it appealing for a very big audience. It is a 'niche' type of game, and if you want more 'depth' and fancy and trendy features, you are clearly playing the wrong game. I know I don't play any 'real' games, but I have tried a lot of such over the years, and LX is really the only one I still keep playing somewhat regularly. It has a certain mystical appeal, that I'm sure just doesn't work for everyone.

I'm not saying KJack's suggestions wouldn't be a nice addition to the game. Only they should be made optional, and even then they would be simply 'nice' at best, in the same way as Albert's factors, but nothing revolutionary. Evolving the game is one thing, but completely changing the traditional way the game is played is another thing.

I also mostly agree with Luffy, the Battlecry/clan base thingy would probably be the most sensible thing to start working on to 'save the LX', or at least its competitive side.
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Magni

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 02:39:32 pm »
As I've probably said before, LX as a competetive game is a JOKE! Why? The Tafka vs Fu thread is a good example. All of you seem to agree that Tafka is a better player, and yet he lost. Blame it on running/camping/stuff but the result clearly indicates that FU IS a better player, because he WON, which is the main goal in a competitive game.

@Pickups: They pretty much provide the core for competetive 1v1 shooters such as UT and Quake. The location as well as the respawn time is STATIC, aka both players will try to grab e.g. the large shieldboost every 104th second, which leads to both players being at the same place at the same time, without a stupid minimap. And you WILL lose if your opponent grabs the shildboost every time.

@Weaponpickups: Limited ammo ---> less spam. And you can't just run around like a headless chicken while your

UT/quake style pickups would ofcourse not work due to the lame runningability, as Lablad mentioned. One sollution would be to force the player to stand on the pickup for x seconds (0.5-1.5 seconds maybe, not random ofcourse).

Removing the minimap without something to force players to the same location would be stupid.

Directional sound + fading volume due to distance would be nice, especially without the minimap.

And more properly balanced mods (MSF II say HI!) would be nice as well.
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Captain Nack Sparrow

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 03:14:43 pm »
He did lose?

And maybe it's the experience of players throughout the years that makes them think Tafka is better, not just 1 game.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 03:25:05 pm by Nack. »
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nsg

Spoon

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2009, 04:28:04 pm »
Regarding the notion of adding pickups and whatnot: bollocks.

The reason I posted this thread is because I made the transition from playing Call of Duty 4 on public servers to playing competetively. I'll explain what this means.

On public servers you play the game as the developers released it, which is designed mostly for good console multiplayer in all honesty. You have 'perks', a selection of three upgrades from different lists available. For example, one perk gives you three frag grenades every life, except one. Another perk makes you much quieter, so you can move a lot faster before you start making noise (in CoD4 you can know where people are just by listening closely, if you're good). One perk makes your bullets lose less damage when fired through walls. There are perks that mean when you die, you drop a live grenade, and another that makes you lie down and draw your pistol for 10 seconds, giving you another chance to kill the guy before you die.

When you get three kills in a row, you get to call in a UAV, this is basically a radar. 5 kills earns you an airstrike, you call it in and if you put it in a good place you can kill most of their team if they're bunched up, etc. 7 kills in a row gets you a helicopter, which flies around above you shooting anyone who pops their head out, and on busier maps it's total overkill. What sucks is that kills from the airstrike count toward your helicopter. It's pretty damn hard not to get two kills with an airstrike.

All this means there's a lot more variety in the game, sure. But when you play competetively, they cut most of it out. You play a modded version of the game, where everyone has the same perks (the most balanced/non-random-luck ones, simple perks that give your shots more power and give you more ammo). UAV, airstrikes and choppers are removed. You all start with one grenade and one flashbang or smoke grenade. The 'stupid' weapons are removed (there are some which are very strong in areas they are meant to be weak). The game is stripped down, so that you are playing with just your weapons, your wits and your team mates. All the stuff that could get you easy kills is removed.

And this is why I thought of LX. When you guys play 100% and everyone is charging about with the SS, napalm, dd, cannon, hg or chainfun, everyone is in the same boat, no unfair advantages, it's just down to your ability. This game is pure fun because while yes, it is simple, it doesn't matter. Because the one aspect this game does have in spades is action. Pure adrenaline pumping action, and that's what makes it fun. And a very good game for playing competetively.
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[leke]GrassNinja

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2009, 05:46:25 pm »
This is why I hate lx community, ingorant and conservative.
Random health bubbles isnt that same as pickups.
Pickups are there so there is something else to the game then just killing, its supposed to have item management, try to get more health and armor then the other, fight over pickups.
You obviously havent played a real game if you dont know how important pickups are in a deathmatch game.
And spawning with weapons reloaded is just stupid, makes no sense. You should spawn with a standard weapon then you hunt for other.

And I want the minimap to go away! it ruins gameplay, you dont need any map knowledge.... You should award the player for smart moves that takes the enemy by suprise.

Oh well..

First of all, I didn't read any further after this post, just not enough time.

One of the reasons why I love LieroX so much is the simplicity. Nothing but your 5 weapons and your fingers, a simple base whereon you biuld up you tactics etc.

There are enough games that work like you described. You refered to them as "real games".
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'KJack.mp3

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2009, 06:07:43 pm »
This is why I hate lx community, ingorant and conservative.
Random health bubbles isnt that same as pickups.
Pickups are there so there is something else to the game then just killing, its supposed to have item management, try to get more health and armor then the other, fight over pickups.
You obviously havent played a real game if you dont know how important pickups are in a deathmatch game.
And spawning with weapons reloaded is just stupid, makes no sense. You should spawn with a standard weapon then you hunt for other.

And I want the minimap to go away! it ruins gameplay, you dont need any map knowledge.... You should award the player for smart moves that takes the enemy by suprise.

Oh well..

First of all, I didn't read any further after this post, just not enough time.

One of the reasons why I love LieroX so much is the simplicity. Nothing but your 5 weapons and your fingers, a simple base whereon you biuld up you tactics etc.

There are enough games that work like you described. You refered to them as "real games".

Ok tell me one which is a 2D shooter and plays like liero?
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Rakkula

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2009, 06:32:26 pm »
As I've probably said before, LX as a competetive game is a JOKE! All of you seem to agree that Tafka is a better player, and yet he lost. Blame it on running/camping/stuff but the result clearly indicates that FU IS a better player, because he WON, which is the main goal in a competitive game.
This is true. I mean, why make a competitive game if you can't play lame!? We just have to change the entire community into lamers: lame players and lame clans should be promoted and rewarded!
      Why play with honour if you play ftw? We're not supporting some Samurai-honor-bullshit, are we? I want palkeo's ded server back where I could lame my dirty little ass off just like in the good old times! I want lame clan wars and lame players. Just think about it: if we're all lame, then there's no reason to call others lame because the definition of traditional laming doesnt apply anymore.

Well this sure won't save the community. Edit: I'm not sure if I was being sarcastic or serious. Hmmn...

Let's face som facts here: LieroX sucks, it's poorly designed and even more poorly carried out. It's old, behind in development and lacks most aspects an addictive game should have. There are many other shit games like Liero and Liero lies in the very bottom of the bullshit barrel... I still love Liero though  8)

I'm terrible sorry for my rather negative future prospects
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 06:38:28 pm by Rakkula »
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pelya

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2009, 06:55:00 pm »
Quote from: 'KJack.mp3 link=topic=12423.msg189182#msg189182
Ok tell me one which is a 2D shooter and plays like liero?

I wonder why you not playing TeeWorlds, it's basically Liero with all-your-beloved pickups, no minimap, and suckiest weapon when you respawn.
It also got only 5 very balanced weapons, and no lag issues or net errors, making it very competition-friendly.
Plus it's more successful than OLX, just look at the server count.
Ah, also it has mouse aim, but that's not an issue for you to hate it I believe?
Soo, tell me where OLX is better than TeeWorlds?

Or you can try Soldat, though I haven't played it 'cause it requires Windows and fast GFX card.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 06:57:44 pm by pelya »
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[leke]GrassNinja

Re: Competetive Play in LX
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2009, 08:07:03 pm »
Quote from: 'KJack.mp3 link=topic=12423.msg189182#msg189182
Ok tell me one which is a 2D shooter and plays like liero?

I wonder why you not playing TeeWorlds, it's basically Liero with all-your-beloved pickups, no minimap, and suckiest weapon when you respawn.
It also got only 5 very balanced weapons, and no lag issues or net errors, making it very competition-friendly.
Plus it's more successful than OLX, just look at the server count.
Ah, also it has mouse aim, but that's not an issue for you to hate it I believe?
Soo, tell me where OLX is better than TeeWorlds?

Or you can try Soldat, though I haven't played it 'cause it requires Windows and fast GFX card.

Thanks for answering, almost exactly what I wanted to say xD
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