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Author Topic: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread  (Read 43917 times)

Ahmed

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #300 on: May 27, 2009, 07:40:51 am »
Carnage  - The  Liero Evolution.. :).
War Grounds - The Liero Evolution

The game doesn't need to actually have the word worms or anything to relate to worms since a lot of skins aren't really worms. In the end I think the developers should have last say though since they work so hard on the game and we just give feedback and play.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 07:48:09 am by Legendkiller »
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Learning about chemistry all day is more fun than anything... sorry LieroX.

Ruki

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #301 on: May 27, 2009, 09:53:55 am »
How some of you are talking about Hirudo being too Japanese... If you first heard the word Liero, you wouldn't think about it the same way? Not for Finnish people, and now you are way too used to the name, you also know its meaning and its point of origin, but to me Liero doesn't sound anything less Japanese than Hirudo... LEE-ERO, HEE-RUDO. Not exactly much of a difference for those who don't originate from Finland or Japan... I think some of you don't even know what you want.
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albert

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #302 on: May 27, 2009, 01:34:28 pm »
How some of you are talking about Hirudo being too Japanese... If you first heard the word Liero, you wouldn't think about it the same way? Not for Finnish people, and now you are way too used to the name, you also know its meaning and its point of origin, but to me Liero doesn't sound anything less Japanese than Hirudo... LEE-ERO, HEE-RUDO. Not exactly much of a difference for those who don't originate from Finland or Japan... I think some of you don't even know what you want.

Well, I tried to explain already that for Germans, that is not necessarily the case. Not sure for other countries.

Anyway, you are right in the point that Liero also doesn't give much impressions.

But the argument that Hirudo is not that much worse than Liero (in its impression and Japanese-like sounding) is not a very good argumente here. We even would have two unknown words in the name "Hirudo: Liero Evolution". What the hell is Hirudo and what the hell does Liero mean would a reader ask (to himself).

Perhaps you are right that I am just that much used to Liero that I still have (unlogical) preferences for Liero over Hirudo. But Liero being in the name (or subtitle) has some other meaning for us. But because it doesn't give much impressions for new players, if at all, it will probably only be in the subtitle.

Well, still thinking about all that... :) Still thinking about the main name...

I agree with DarkCharlie in most points whereby I think "Holez: Liero Evolution" doesn't sound harmonic somehow.
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Raziel

  • Guest
Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #303 on: May 27, 2009, 01:55:44 pm »
Allowing programmers to decide about the name, seems to be worse than letting a pink girl (sorry Pirge) into shopping center.
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pelya

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #304 on: May 27, 2009, 02:07:30 pm »
I still don't like the Hirudo part that much. I would vote perhaps just for Liero Evolution. (www.liero-evolution.org is available) (whereby some other good suggestions also came up lately in this thread). Not sure about the other devs. Pelya also didn't liked it in the beginning (he said it just sounds too Japanese and too strange for somebody who has no idea what it means - something I have to agree with), not sure if he is obliging now or if he really likes it when put in that combination.

I am also not sure about the impression Hirudo is giving to someone who just never have heard of it. I would perhaps think of some Japanese anime movie - but not about a worms game / liero clone.

Yeah, I still don't like Hirudo, it's just that I've seen other variants and they are even worse, sorry for changing my opinion so often  ::) .

Names I dislike:
OpenLieroX, reason:
Hirudo, reason:
Has already been mentioned, sounds too Japaneese to me. I have never liked it, I just agreed with it two years ago as there was nothing better to choose from. That's not true anymore so I don't see a reason to stick to this name.
The only reason many people like Hirudo is because we've been mentioning that name for a long time. It's just about getting used to a new name, however stupid it is.

Names I like:
Ascaris, reason:
Sounds mystically, ancient (just like Atlantis) and has a worm meaning in itself, even though it's not english and many people won't discover that. But Liero is just the same case, isn't it? Domain names and Google are not free though.

Holez, reason:
It perfectly fits the game - you're making holes in the dirt. Worms are not the main characters anymore but holes still stay :) Also creating a nice logo for this name would be much easier than for Hirudo/Ascaris/Liero-like name. Searching google for Holez gives no good results and also many domain names are still free (holez.org, holez.name, holez.biz).

Wormage, reason:
It has an energy in itself. Something like: "Just shoot it!". Domain names are free and Google (almost) as well.

Ideas I like:
The Liero Evolution subtitle - that really makes sense, will bring old Liero players and will also give us more google hits (from people searching for Liero). Besides that, we can leave it in cases when it's not appropriate.

My decision:
Holez: Liero Evolution


So I'll vote for Hirudo, or Blastiny, or Ascaris (despite it's meaning, just to please Cizin) - both Wormage and Swormed sounds kinda too simple for me, and for Holez - remove that Z in the end plz.
And whatever the name will be I wish to stick "Liero Evolution" at the end.

How some of you are talking about Hirudo being too Japanese... If you first heard the word Liero, you wouldn't think about it the same way? Not for Finnish people, and now you are way too used to the name, you also know its meaning and its point of origin, but to me Liero doesn't sound anything less Japanese than Hirudo... LEE-ERO, HEE-RUDO. Not exactly much of a difference for those who don't originate from Finland or Japan... I think some of you don't even know what you want.

Still Liero sounds less Japanese, 'cause "li-e-ro" has no such rhythmic consonant and vowel sequence as in "hi-ru-do", so common for Japanese language.

Allowing programmers to decide about the name, seems to be worse than letting a pink girl (sorry Pirge) into shopping center.

That's true, but we have the power, mwahaha . Also I'd say Run and Ruki should agree on new name too. (Oh, Run is PHP programmer, but that's minor details :P )
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DarkCharlie

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #305 on: May 27, 2009, 02:39:25 pm »
I guess razzy should decide as well because he will be the one making a logo for it  ;)

About that Z, I would gladly replace it with S, but the domains are not available for Holes.
About Ascaris - all domains are taken as well and in Google Wiki will probably be always above our game.
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Hatten

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #306 on: May 27, 2009, 03:30:19 pm »
Ascariz!! haha

please clean up the poll, and the thread title. It is a pain scrolling through the poll that has 25 entries and half of them are empty. (votes are reset) doesn't make sense at all anymore.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 03:32:42 pm by Hatten »
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albert

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #307 on: May 27, 2009, 03:33:54 pm »
Ascariz!! haha

please clean up the poll, and the thread title. It is a pain scrolling through the poll that has 25 entries and half of them are empty. (votes are reset) doesn't make sense at all anymore.

Perhaps we can collect the best suggestions/ideas and also some of the thoughts (why we would like to have a name change, etc.) in the start post.
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Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #308 on: May 27, 2009, 05:37:37 pm »
Liero: Combat Evolved


A new name will naturally not sound like Liero as it hasn't been defined. And most notably, it's the game that defines the name, not the opposite as some people seem to belive. A simple change of names, as long as it makes sense, will not make the game more popular.
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Raziel

  • Guest
Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #309 on: May 28, 2009, 03:29:21 pm »
I guess razzy should decide as well because he will be the one making a logo for it  ;)

About that Z, I would gladly replace it with S, but the domains are not available for Holes.
About Ascaris - all domains are taken as well and in Google Wiki will probably be always above our game.

Awwww, I'm so so so touched, that I even created a sketch for your Holez. Despite the fact, that it will attract all the pervert from the universe...

Holez
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Nets

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #310 on: May 28, 2009, 03:49:14 pm »
Wooow , that looks awesome. All it needs is a little touch of a magical brush.
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Spoon

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #311 on: May 28, 2009, 07:29:38 pm »
Oh my god, did someone just *suggest* something that Raz's artwork could do with?

Ok, a few things. In no particular order, since this is getting way out of hand.

Time once more for Spoon's Bottom Line, seeing as you guys are reverting into more suggestions and throwing new stuff around when we were finally narrowing it down.

To those saying Hirudo 'sounds japanese' - WHAT? Seriously, what? I could see the link, but WHY does that matter? In all honesty the name sounds a bit japanese will not BY ANY MEANS bring in Japanese players, CHinese players.. because UNLESS it is actually a word in that language, they are not going to find it, given that we have no descriptions/websites of it in that language!

Furthermore, you are all completely failing to realise how you will get new players. Having a name, good or bad, will not create new players. People do not see a name and instantly decide 'sounds good, lets try it' or 'sounds shit, **** that'. They will decide that based on the context, the description given to the game. If we go about pushing the game out, then we will get more chance to impress than just the name. And in all honesty the name is far less important than you think, seeing as we're not going for a ****ing 'buzzword' that some suits in a boardroom can push into public eye for an advertisement. This is the internet, people try games out based on reputation, not on the name.

Devs - make a choice. If you are going to veto names cos you don't like them then stop this entire circus, just decide the names for yourselves. Cos a lot of people bust their balls trying to find a community approved name and you guys shoot it down. Either make it a community job and accept the results or decide it for yourselves.

Albert, when Gaston asked your initial reactions on names, you totally missed the point. iPod - you said you knew it was apple and mp3 player cos you heard about the ipod. That's missing the point. The point is, when you heard iPod, did you wonder 'hmmn i wonder why they called it iPod, with the little i.. ' - and whatever you came to as a conclusion, it matters not. Because it's called that whether you like it hate it and won't change, the product is no different because of the name.

When I first heard the new nintendo console was called the Wii I thought it was hilarious, I read endless puns on the name and thought it was totally wii-diculous, but that didn't stop the console becoming successful, because people accept names if the substance is good.

A little culture for you -

Quote
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

Getting all Shakespeare on your asses.

This game will succeed or fail solely on the impressions we give of it when advertising it in the appropriate areas, and once we've got people to download and play, it will depend on the gameplay itself and the community's ability to keep hold of those that wonder in.

Holez simply sounds like a niche porno featuring Hispanic 'actresses' having fun in public toilets. It is only in cases like this, where the name is so unbelievably provocative, that a name and it's impressions really WILL cause **** ups. I am willing to bet I could find a porn link with 'holez' in the name.  I googled Holez, this came up near the top http://www.torrentreactor.net/find/glory-holez-girls
I am assuming you know what a glory hole is. If you don't consider this LXA-Twilight-Education.

There is a great deal of 'Missing the woods for the trees' - another phrase I expect a lot of you won't fully appreciate but look it up, it's very fitting.

Go listen to the RatM song Wake Up, the message is a little different but some of you guys are totally missing the point here.
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albert

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #312 on: May 28, 2009, 08:04:27 pm »
Quote
Albert, when Gaston asked your initial reactions on names, you totally missed the point. iPod - you said you knew it was apple and mp3 player cos you heard about the ipod. That's missing the point. The point is, when you heard iPod, did you wonder 'hmmn i wonder why they called it iPod, with the little i.. ' - and whatever you came to as a conclusion, it matters not. Because it's called that whether you like it hate it and won't change, the product is no different because of the name.

If they would have called it Hirudo, they would have less people using/bying that thing. iHirudo would already be better for them because you can at least guess that it is something from Apple. But still iPod is better than iHirudo because people have some impression of it and not just "what the hell is that".

Quote
To those saying Hirudo 'sounds japanese' - WHAT? Seriously, what? I could see the link, but WHY does that matter? In all honesty the name sounds a bit japanese will not BY ANY MEANS bring in Japanese players, CHinese players.. because UNLESS it is actually a word in that language, they are not going to find it, given that we have no descriptions/websites of it in that language!

That's not the point. I would be happy if we would have more Japanese players. That's just not the point here. The point is, that I think a name which sounds Japanese (and where nobody just have any clue what it means) is not better than the old name and also not that good in general. It also just gives the wrong (or none - or a Japanese) impression about the game. That's the point and the reason why I don't like it.

And I also think that a name has some (perhaps even much) impact on what people think about. Some people wouldn't even try it out if the name would be bad. Perhaps that's stupid but that's the way it is. I even can understand that because if you just browse through a list of thousands games and see their names, you will decide based on the name if it sounds interesting or not and you will never get the chance to try all or look at more detail at each of them. Perhaps the impact is not that big. But it will be there. It could even be negative, if the name is bad (Hirudo is probably just neutral because nobody has an idea what it means). Your impression of Holez probably shows that this is also not a good name.

I would like a name with a meaning which everbody understands, which is somehow possitive (or sounds fun) and which somehow fits to the game. It shouldn't be too difficult to find such.

Perhaps something like "Earthworm Carnage" - just as simple.

And all the opinions which were given here in this thread are very helpfull for me to think about it. When we started the thread, I wasn't really sure about Hirudo and about other names. Now I am more sure about what the new name should be like (in general). And one of the points is that it should have a good impression. Otherwise we also could simply keep Liero - which is even better than Hirudo in my opinion. That's also why I prefer "Liero Evolution" (or something with Liero) more than Hirudo.

Of course, all this is also a bit a question of personal taste. Perhaps that is also the main issue here with Hirudo, that most of us (devs) just don't like it. And we will more likely choose a name we like than a name we dislike.
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Spoon

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #313 on: May 28, 2009, 10:41:45 pm »
Bah. I present logic, reason, backed up by some facts where applicable.

It is common sense that this game, current, new, whatever - will not find new players who randomly click big lists of games. If you're looking at big lists of games it's for a specialist reason or you're looking for quick flash games etc. Not ++mb downloads which have extensive communities.

People who stick with this game are those who join it because they know people playing it, in nearly all cases. There is no data for this sort of thing, but I simply cannot see this game being found by people somehow randomly google searching something that brings up OLX.

You need to proactively promote it in smart, intelligent ways and places if you want the player base to grow. With that in mind, the name is no where near as important as the package it is delivered in. If I wrote a short description for the game and posted some thumbnails, I guarantee people would be drawn from what I write, not because a name sounds 'good' or 'bad'.

A name sounding 'good' or 'bad' is 100% personal opinion, outside of basic obvious cases such as words which already have strong representations for things like porn. Most of the names which are unrelated to other things in common use - Hirudo, Ascaris, Blastiny, Wormage - they are good or bad entirely upon your own opinion.

Which leads me to the final point - what the hell makes your opinion correct? I already stated in my last post, and if the answer to this question is 'because I made the game' then you need to seriously consider whether this entire thread is of any use whatsoever.

If you're going to pick the name yourself then do it, don't ask us for our opinions, reasoning and logic. Because through it all you will go with what you personally enjoy, regardless of whether that is something which pleases the people who actually play the game every day. And that's not necessarily something good, bad, wrong, right, I'm not passing opinion. I'm just pointing out the cold facts of how this is going to work out.
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albert

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #314 on: May 28, 2009, 11:00:41 pm »
I didn't said that my opinion is more correct than yours. I just tried to explain why I don't like Hirudo that much and why I think that Liero is better than Hirudo. My main arguments are based on good reasons (doesn't give or give Japanese impressions; Hirudo doesn't give better impressions than Liero) but of course, there is also a big portion of personal taste in it.

I fully agree with you that the content (the game itself) is much more important than the name. Don't think that I handle this name descision more important than the development. In fact, I am very hardly working right now on OLX (and all the time while we had this discussion in the background).

I don't really get your complaints. About what are you complaining? That we don't like Hirudo? I take your posts very serious (all posts here, but esp. also yours) and they give very good input for the descision itself and they will have very big impact on the final descision (that's one of the reasons we are discussing this - because I want to have that impact).

I also don't understand why you don't want us to ask for your opinion. I am still very interested in all available opinions and ideas. And it's not that just everything has been said already. From day to day / week to week, some new ideas and thoughts still coming up.

If we just don't like Hirudo, it doesn't mean that we will ignore everything what you say.
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Spoon

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #315 on: May 28, 2009, 11:20:45 pm »
Hmmn. An exceptional post.

My main gripe is purely frustration. Every so often someone makes a suggestion which picks up pace and seems to be getting somewhere, some people give approval and things look like there is light at the end of the tunnel. Then, inevitably, someone somewhere will post something that brings up other issues that people seemed to have gotten around before.. and old wounds are opened so to speak - we go round and round in circles.

This is especially annoying when it interrupts my 'post train' - it was picking up pace as I attempted to bring about logical reasoning to closer define what was needed and through that come up with the most suitable (if not immediately likeable, but suitable for sure) name.

I don't mind it when the swell of opinion being interrupted is only there through random luck and missed points. When a well orchestrated attempt to push forward is broken down it bothers me, tis all :)
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RuNyoufool

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #316 on: May 28, 2009, 11:58:56 pm »
haha, so if we end up with Holez, this community could be renamed to "Allied Holez". I totally like it :P.. "Holez crap" would be the download site? ;) If we get the go, we'll set up a "frequently assed holez" for sure!

sighhhh.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 12:03:44 am by RuNyoufool »
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this was posted in the past. everything on forums can be manipulated. don't believe what you see or read.

Nets

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #317 on: May 29, 2009, 12:09:08 am »
well somebody got excited , eh?
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albert

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #318 on: May 29, 2009, 01:16:30 am »
It seems that this whole topic produces a lot of tension for everybody. :)

Sorry if it seems that we are going forth and back in this discussion without any real progress. I wouldn't say that we don't make any progress - I would rather say the opposite (at least for me).

It's just that (this was already multiple times in this single thread) sometimes some people stick to one idea, some others come on board and agree with most given arguments and the general mood comes up that this idea will make it. Sorry about that (but I am also not the one who has made such a mood, or at least it was not my intention). :) I surely understand that if it seems that the descision is almost made and then some people (including us devs) are again pointing in a different direction must feel somehow frustrating.

I am still open to most ideas and I wouldn't say that I already am stuck for myself with a specific suggestion. Whereby I clearly have some I prefer and some others I don't prefer that much. But I have to develop that feeling a bit more for myself (and sleep some more nights about it). And I would really like to get your opinion - mostly also to other or new ideas / names (I am not sure if we can add much more to the discussion about the name Hirudo).
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DarkCharlie

Re: Rename OpenLieroX suggestions thread (votes are reset)
« Reply #319 on: May 29, 2009, 02:31:22 am »
How about Dark Holez?  :D

Seems that you watch too much porn Spoonie, I've never got such idea when hearing that name  ;) But I guess your point is correct :)

I am open to new suggestions, Holez is removed from my favourite list :)

I agree with albert here, this discussion is not worthless. And if it looks like we are vetoing some ideas, it's not true. When the majority votes for Hirudo, I will accept it.
But be sure that I will protest because I don't like that name :)

Oh, and there are some objective criterias: domain availability (many suggestions fail here, including Hirudo), perverzity (yeah, Holez fails here), length and understandability (how many people will actually understand what it means at the first glance).
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