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Author Topic: Philosophies  (Read 30514 times)

Jeff

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #120 on: February 05, 2009, 02:28:16 am »
I hate it when people say "Money can't buy happiness."

Lets take Gerald here;



Gerald grew up in a crummy apartment complex. His father was abusive, and his mother was too scared to say anything about it. Gerald barely makes it out of public school, and doesn't have a high enough GPA to go to college.

Gerald finds himself hanging around his local community chapel, and starts to find inner peace. He begins to see life through different eyes. The Church gives him house support, and he rents a condo for himself. Later, he falls in love with Cherie, a girl that grew up in his neighborhood. She isn't competent either, and they barely make ends meat.

--

Now, take Rosalind.



Rosalind comes from a billionaire family, and some would consider her snobbish. She goes to private school, having a small circle of friends. She really wants to be a Roller Coaster designer, but her parents shun the idea, wanting her to join the family Brain Surgeon practice. She acts interested in Brain Surgery, but deep down she really just wants to design Roller Coasters. After high school, she gets into college with a Medical Major, minoring in Brain Surgery. She spends the rest of her life in remorse of her decision, that made her parents proud. She is rich. Sports cars, Liposuction, Nice Mansion, you name it. She feels like something is missing.

--

Now, imagine that Rosalind, the rich girl, suddenly becomes poverty stricken. Do you think that she would "find happiness?" Of course not. Even though her Wealth did not give her happiness in the first place, she still was able to do things with her friends that boosted her esteem, and outlook on life.



--

Now, imagine that Gerald wins 50 Million Dollars in the lottery. Do you think that he would be happy? Of course! He would be ecstatic!  He could buy a house, afford quality food, and live a comfortable life! He could even go on cruises with his love, making him even more grateful for his situation.




--

Can money buy happiness?

You decide.
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Savory

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #121 on: February 05, 2009, 06:15:24 am »
It's pretty much dependent on how you look at life, after my short years on the earth I feel like life is just as difficult and fun as you make it.  If shit happens and you act accordingly, duh, you're miserable.  It's how you decide to move on from the boring, the awful, the piss that sets your outlook on life.  If you dwell on your failures, congratulations.  I'll be somewhere else
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Jeff

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #122 on: February 05, 2009, 06:24:52 am »
Savory, do you think optimism is a choice-- or a way of life?
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Savory

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #123 on: February 05, 2009, 06:29:18 am »
isn't that the same thing?
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Jeff

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #124 on: February 05, 2009, 06:33:03 am »
Choice (being able to change your mood from a state of sadness to happiness(by will))

Way of life (innate)
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Savory

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #125 on: February 05, 2009, 06:34:45 am »
well when you define it that way I guess I say choice...
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Jeff

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #126 on: February 05, 2009, 06:35:59 am »
Why do you think that? I personally think that it is innate. Although you can change your outlook on things, it doesn't change the fact that you could be a down-right pessimist.
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Savory

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #127 on: February 05, 2009, 07:16:21 am »
saying things are innate makes me mad, because then people start using it as an excuse.  It invokes laziness in my opinion, like you're entitled to your own faults, instead of believing your faults can be lessened through practice.  Which I firmly believe in. 

How do you think I learned to draw?  I spent hours.. hours each day (it was at middle and high school though ;) practicing and studying to get better.  It turned to weeks, and months, and years of practice.  To have people say  "oooo you're talented, I wish i gots talents like those!" pisses me off to no end.  I worked my ass off to get what I feel is only marginally good.

I can certainly draw better than when I started though, because I saw something I'd like to be better at and I did it.  I didn't just accept the fact that I blew at drawing stick figures, I changed it.  In my opinion, the same thing applies to problems with your development and personality.  Granted, it's not as fun learning not to be a dick, but it is probably going to be equally as hard as learning to draw, you've just got to be willing to put in the time to change.
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Jeff

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #128 on: February 05, 2009, 07:38:17 am »
True, but you are jumping across a bit there. Drawing is an art, a tangible practice. Optimism and pessimism are states of mind.
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Sakmongkol

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #129 on: February 05, 2009, 01:26:49 pm »
Well Smexy, in your example and according to your definition of happiness, I guess you could say money can buy happiness. However, I wouldn't call that 'true' happiness, but more like enjoyment. You can buy it with money, but when the money's gone the 'happiness' is gone too. True happiness should be somewhat more lasting, and the optimistic state of mind you mentioned is required to achieve that.

Regarding your question whether optimism is a choice or a way of life, I would call it more a way of life. However, I wouldn't define a way of life as anything innate, so in that sense I'm more with Savory here. It is just a bigger choice than the everyday choices Savory mentioned. I guess some people are more optimistic by nature, but it is something you can learn.

All of this, however, has very little to do with my original question, which was not at all about whether money can buy happiness, but whether people can really be happy working like animals to get that money. Looking at Gerald from Smexy's example, I think it would be safe to say he is happy after winning the 50 million, but he has not worked for that money. Also people like Gerald are very rare when we look at things from a global perspective, and just because people like him can be happy because of all the money, it doesn't mean the whole system revolving around money is a happy one. In a system like this one man's gain is another man's loss, and when Gerald becomes happy by winning, millions of other people probably become sad for not winning. This way the overall happiness is spread very unequally, which I don't think is the way it should be.
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"If you understood everything I say, you'd be me!"

~ Miles Davis

Jeff

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #130 on: February 05, 2009, 10:38:04 pm »
That's exactly right, I agree Sak.
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Fuego

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #131 on: February 06, 2009, 01:06:03 am »
Let me start off by saying this: I am agnostic, I'm not here to preach my religion or lack thereof, I just thought that I'd get that out of the way. Now, for my philosophy. I am not stating this as a truth, simply submitting it as a possibility. Could it be possible that the human race was invented by some unknown race/force as a weapon to destroy all life on planets? I mean it would make sense with the whole adam and eve theory, with us starting with a man and a woman. We eventually advanced and multiplied to reach where we are now, and the theory of "God" could be explained by whomever/whatever placed us here occasionally steering us in the right direction, and its slow disappearance from our society as we needed it less and less. It is possible that we will end our own race with some sort of nuclear armageddon that will destroy us all, along with the majority of life on earth, and we would annihalate ourselves in the process. In this fashion, the earth would be void of most (if not all) life, and the being/force who placed us here could simply do whatever they wanted with the planet, with little interferance from any native species/vegetation, etc. I realize that there are giant gaping holes in my logic, and feel free to point them out as you see fit, I am simply submitting this as a discussion subject.
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Sakmongkol

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #132 on: February 06, 2009, 01:31:18 am »
Hmm I was gonna try and come up with some nice arguments on that one, but I'll just say: yeah, it could be possible. But really, what's the point of discussing that, you as an agnostic should know that such a discussion would be pointless. We simply can't know if those things happened or didn't happen. I don't find it very interesting to discuss questions like that which will probably never be fully answered, and even if we were able to get some answers, I think they would lack any real meaning. We will never have enough information to come up with one absolutely truthful, objective answer.
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"If you understood everything I say, you'd be me!"

~ Miles Davis

Jeff

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #133 on: February 06, 2009, 04:34:26 am »
(The Incompleteness Theory)

Whatever variables you assign; whatever direction you come from there will always be a gap. (That is, unless you find the right one...)

Do you think that the LHC will find the Higgs boson, Sak?
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Sakmongkol

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #134 on: February 06, 2009, 05:17:50 pm »
(The Incompleteness Theory)

Whatever variables you assign; whatever direction you come from there will always be a gap. (That is, unless you find the right one...)

Do you think that the LHC will find the Higgs boson, Sak?

Hmm, I don't really understand what's the point of that theory. And why are you asking me about the LHC and Higgs boson? What do they have to do with anything, above all philosophy? Honestly, I am not interested at all in the LHC or the Higgs boson or much anything scientific that's going on in the world today. :-\
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"If you understood everything I say, you'd be me!"

~ Miles Davis

MissingNo.

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #135 on: February 08, 2009, 12:19:26 am »
Even though it has nothing to do with philosophy, it'd be nice if they did find it. xd

Jeff

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #136 on: February 09, 2009, 12:21:34 am »
It would help us find the origin of the universe. It's extremely important.
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Gaston

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #137 on: February 15, 2009, 04:41:00 pm »
Money can't buy happiness. Though, financial security helps one to not have to worry about how to manage financially.
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26 Mars 2007
Belle: woah, is that a neatly snuck in sexproposition? Could I ask you to take of your pants?

Jeff

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #138 on: February 15, 2009, 05:49:29 pm »
Yes, and whenever I walk into a cool surf-shop I always fantasize... wouldn't it be cool if this was my wardrobe, my home? Every day I could just walk in and choose another surfboard to go out in the water with, another cool t-shirt or skateboard. It would be wonderful to not have to worry about money.
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Fuego

Re: Philosophies
« Reply #139 on: February 15, 2009, 10:52:04 pm »
I completely agree, although money cannot technically buy happiness, it doesn't hurt. :P
Well Smexy, in your example and according to your definition of happiness, I guess you could say money can buy happiness. However, I wouldn't call that 'true' happiness, but more like enjoyment. You can buy it with money, but when the money's gone the 'happiness' is gone too. True happiness should be somewhat more lasting, and the optimistic state of mind you mentioned is required to achieve that.
Regarding your question whether optimism is a choice or a way of life, I would call it more a way of life. However, I wouldn't define a way of life as anything innate, so in that sense I'm more with Savory here. It is just a bigger choice than the everyday choices Savory mentioned. I guess some people are more optimistic by nature, but it is something you can learn.
All of this, however, has very little to do with my original question, which was not at all about whether money can buy happiness, but whether people can really be happy working like animals to get that money. Looking at Gerald from Smexy's example, I think it would be safe to say he is happy after winning the 50 million, but he has not worked for that money. Also people like Gerald are very rare when we look at things from a global perspective, and just because people like him can be happy because of all the money, it doesn't mean the whole system revolving around money is a happy one. In a system like this one man's gain is another man's loss, and when Gerald becomes happy by winning, millions of other people probably become sad for not winning. This way the overall happiness is spread very unequally, which I don't think is the way it should be.
So are you suggesting communism of "happiness" instead of wealth? If we can compare happiness, a state of mind, to a type of economy, then I would still go with capitalism. Whether you are happy or not depends on a mixture of hard work, correct decisions, and sheer dumb luck. Diversity is what makes life interesting, I don't think I would want to live in a world where everyone was just as happy as everyone else, because that would make it so no one could complain, because everyone had it just as bad/good. Complaining is one of my favorite hobbies!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 11:16:37 pm by WK.WhiteKnight »
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