Total servers: 3
Who's still around? (Forum Discussion ) by Qaz, Today at 03:09:48 pm
2012 (Forum Discussion ) by Adam August 18, 2019, 08:29:56 pm
[wc] Legacy of the Toilet Warriors Tribute video (Forum Discussion ) by Adam August 18, 2019, 08:24:01 pm
Holidays/Me leaving/me coming back Threads (The World Outside) by Adam August 18, 2019, 08:14:20 pm
Backup server NL
Liero v1.0 – 20lt
IP: 95.46.198.26
Game Mode: Death Match
Lives: 0
Max Kills: 15
Version: OpenLieroX 0.58 rc5
Players:
80.186.170.22
Unknown
Unknown – 0lt
IP: 80.186.170.22
Game Mode:
Lives: 0
Max Kills: 0
Version: LieroX 0.56b
Players:
M0rtsHeaven
Modern Warfare1.0 – 20lt
IP: 84.251.82.159
Game Mode: Death Match
Lives: 0
Max Kills: 12
Version: OpenLieroX 0.58 rc5
Players:
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?  (Read 6051 times)

Thor

Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« on: October 09, 2008, 08:48:16 pm »
Like most of you know, here in Finland have been two schoolmassacres in year. Researchers have tried to find out what's the problem, even researchers from foreign lands. I just read what norwegian columnist wrote in his article about Finland and its' educationsystem. "Small, introverted, and quiet nation which has bloody war in near history. Societal atmosphere where is hard to detect suicidal person. School which is successful in international resultmeasuring, but which sorts out pupils by their success and which would succee worse, if its' goal was to get every pupils and if there measured pupils' societal understanding and social skills."

Norwegian education system has been critized, because of its' bad results. This norwegian columnist Per Anders Madsen thinks from another perpective: "God bless us, if risks to happenings like Kauhajoki will grow up".

Ok, in my opinion this sounds like this Madsen is bothered of the critique what norwegian education has got. Schoolgrades are schoolgrades, and mental problems are mental problems. And, the best upper secondary school in Finland is SYK = Suomalainen yhteiskoulu = Finnish co-educational school. It have been the best like ten years, if you look baccalaureate. And the atmosphere is good there, and always has been.

But seriously, has there any point in Madsen's writings? I don't see. If you see, please come out with them.
Logged

[leke]GrassNinja

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 08:58:02 pm »
I can't really understand your translation there, but I guess he meant the school wants and pushes the pupils to success, which may be a pressure that not everybody can stand.
Logged

Sakmongkol

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2008, 09:28:39 pm »
Yeah it's true that the school system in Finland is rather harsh and generally more interested in good grades than making the students feel good in school. I personally went to a 'junior high school' in a place where we were divided in 7 groups based on our grades from elementary school, except one group which consisted of those who studied German. I was in the 'best' group, A, and yeah there was some sort of alienation and isolation because of this system, which was by the way discontinued a year after I left.

But I think if you want the school system to be of any use, you can't avoid these unfortunate situations where some people can't stand the pressure. The Norwegian education system has been criticized for a reason, because it's goal seems to be to develop the students' social skills more than actually educate them. Luckily in Finland we have this healthy mentality that you have to work hard if you want to succeed, and some people just aren't able to live up to the level which is expected from them. But still the weird new phenomena like school shootings can't be blamed on a school system with very long traditions. It's just that in the modern world people have found these sick ways of expressing their frustration, despair and other feelings.

Now we can only hope the new stricter gun politics will reduce the risk of school shootings in the future.
Logged
"If you understood everything I say, you'd be me!"

~ Miles Davis

[leke]GrassNinja

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2008, 09:50:37 pm »
Not everyone can stand that amount of pressure, and it can be a really big one, because IMO, school system and later on finding a job is A LOT harder today. Also, to get a good job nowadays, you really have to show good grades, what makes the pressure in school even bigger.

I'm speaking about Switzerland of course, don't know how it is in Finland, but I guess it's at least a bit similar.
Logged

Desmond

  • 5 4 5 8 7 7 5 5 4 3 7 7 6 1 1 3 <-- the first music title! (aint it gay and lovely Haze)
  • LXA Duracell Postworm
  • ******
  • Schwartz: +80/-16
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1380
  • 3488 credits
  • View Inventory
  • Send Money To Desmond
  • Beautiful madness.
Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 12:43:02 am »
Aaaaah, two words. Midterm rushes. Real killers!

I'd probably be crazy by now if I did not have COFFEE!!

Logged

Gaston

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2008, 01:10:42 am »
I would take the Norwegian school system over any other system (except maybe the Danish, but I'm not completely sure if it is better yet) any day. Of course I live in Norway, so I may be a bit biased here. But it's true, Norwegian school education is secondary to social interaction and training. Everything is based on attempting to have good communication between all links. Of course, this isn't fool proof, and it has it's downsides (grades etc), but it is free on all levels (except for some private schools), and it is much more catered for the individual rather than being an immediate practical effort for the nation. We're also filthy rich, so we don't have such an intensitive to be cutting edge on all areas either.

In the end it all comes down to what you want the school to be. Do you want it to be a competetive ground, where everyones pushed as hard as possible to be as good as possible, or do you want to create an enviroment where people interact more with eachother, and regards eachother as co-students rather than competitors? Or do you want something in the middle? I prefer school being much more of a social training spot rather than a competive spot.
Logged
26 Mars 2007
Belle: woah, is that a neatly snuck in sexproposition? Could I ask you to take of your pants?

Savory

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2008, 02:50:54 am »
I think it's true in America too, people who don't get good grades don't get accepted to good colleges.  Most of them getting depressed and failing for the rest of their lives.  I mostly call them pansies.  Life is hard, so make the best of it, compete!!!

Thing is there is a ton of ways for us to get help should we need it, through tutors and talking to teachers after school, groups, and programs.  A lot of kids still just don't seem to care though.....pansies.  I like the idea of a competitive school, the slackers get to serve food for the rest of their lives....but that's me...it might be a bit harsh.
Logged

nihil abyssyncyst

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2008, 03:49:18 am »
a couple of things:

1. there is a hysteria against gun violence that is used by the state to increase its control which should be opposed. individual tales of tragedy are used to cause moral panic and try to get the public to accept their right to defend themselves being taken away. if you look at the statistics, the amount of deaths by random gun violence are actually very low, much lower than the amount of deaths than cars for example. the amount of deaths by gun violence in schools is so low, lower than the amount of children who are killed by riding bicycles or falling into buckets of water, so the fact that some instances happen is no basis to have a hysteria and ban over.

2. in US states where there are harsher gun control laws, there are higher rates of rape and assault. australia and great britain have harsher gun control laws and still have high rates of murder except it is more biased with women, smaller people and elderly being easy targets because they cannot defend themselves with the democratic right to bear arms and in a knife or blunt weapons fight the larger person has a huge advantage (knives and blunt weapons can never be banned). widespread gun ownership actually decreases rates of people preying on others because of the threat of immediate deterrent. the actual amount of people shooting assailants can be relatively low because there are many times where someone merely has to bear their arm to scare away an attacker and once it is known that people in an area can defend themselves people will not want to do crimes in that area.

3. a small amount of people will be crazy no matter what, even if we do everything we can to try to solve social problems, so hysteria based on the tiny minority of insane people is no basis for any repressive laws against the majority. this will hold true until the far future when we have great advances in human psychology and medicine.

4. gun possession can stop shooting sprees, for example there was a school shooting in Israel where a responsible armed person shot the spree killer (who was tragically driven to insanity by the apartheid/colonial occupation of Palestine).

5. don't be an asshole to people who are less fortunate or that you view to have lower abilities. it does no good and causes resentment. it is good to tell people that they can improve themselves through hard work but it is a social evil to suggest that people who do not perform as well deserve bad lives. even if everyone tries their hardest, not all will succeed because of the nature of the capitalist economy. socialism would be better at caring for all, but there will still be difficulties with young people and older people even then.

6. there should be free quality education developed for all people, and that would include getting rid of tracking systems that limit someone based on their performance when they were very young.
Logged

Savory

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2008, 06:40:01 am »
High five on straight gun laws.  People are naturally respectful of life, and those who don't....will be that way regardless.  If the teachers were allowed to arm themselves then these shooting sprees would be much shorter in my opinion.

One thing I desire the most is to have free high-quality education for everyone, giving everyone an equal chance.  It's nice to be romantic and believe we can save everyone, but in reality there are the people who won't give up, and the people who will.  I don't think chasing after those who gave up is something beneficial.  Much less caring for and supporting these people, let them die. 

There is no possible way for everyone to have a good life, regardless of the government.  Having lived in Capitalism I think I can say from experience it's a bit more hopeful in that those who don't give up, reach success.  Those are the people that go on to make the middle and upper class
Logged

Desmond

  • 5 4 5 8 7 7 5 5 4 3 7 7 6 1 1 3 <-- the first music title! (aint it gay and lovely Haze)
  • LXA Duracell Postworm
  • ******
  • Schwartz: +80/-16
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1380
  • 3488 credits
  • View Inventory
  • Send Money To Desmond
  • Beautiful madness.
Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2008, 07:28:07 am »
Quick post.

We live in a "5 minute rice" society. I don't need to justify that.


Kids does not enjoy studying because it is not something that can be done quickly and instantly (It demands lots of efforts). WHY ISN'T CALCULUS LIKE THAT?
This fact brings their motivation to study, down. Long hours having to study boring stuff! Everybody enjoys that! Woo, calculus!
So lots of them lose motivation to the point of becoming anxious about school and dropping out. Because of calculus!

Learning is fun and enjoyable when you love the topic. Give me chemistry, biology and literature, my interest will be at it's peak. But for some other things I shall not name... Calculuscalculuscalculuscalculuscalculushelpimtrappedinanuniversefactorycalculuscalculus

I'll write more tomorrow, I am going to study uninteresting stuff at 2:00 AM. You'll never find out exactly what.  Gaston, if you read this line, I'm awaiting your lecture!
Logged

nihil abyssyncyst

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2008, 07:31:30 am »
in socialism there would still be better jobs available for people who tried harder and succeeded in more difficult education, but it would be much better for the working classes to have guaranteed employment and more equal standard of living as it would reduce social conflict. poverty is a major cause of crime and other social problems. even within capitalist states you can see the difference in crime rates between the USA which has the highest rate of poverty in the industrialized world and one of the highest crime rates, and other capitalist states that have had a higher proportion of social democratic or labor party members of parliament over time and therefore more basic social welfare to reduce extreme poverty, though these states still have poverty and unemployment. the "let them die" attitude when enacted in social policy leads to social problems that are then complained about and used to support gun control and a more totalitarian surveillance state.
Logged

pelya

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2008, 09:29:42 am »
The education system is totally wrong, at least in Ukraine, so I agree with Des. You've got some stupid things to learn, which you don't need ever in your life, and you should learn them anyway, the main argument why is the teacher's authority, which doesn't work for kids. In institute the teachers were more friendly at least, the attitude there was like "you've got that 20 questions at exam, memorize that 10 pages in a book and you can forget them after exam", but the rules are still the same.
I don't know what alternative could be here, but I think just giving the students some real-world task to do and free access to library/Wikipedia will produce better results here. The problem here is picking the task that would be interesting for student, and not so huge that student will lose interest to it.
Logged

Lodur

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2008, 09:46:46 am »
My school rocks. :] There is a organization called ''Osku'' here in finland that makes things better for us in tech. school so im down like a clown.
Logged
When you reach max level you stop leveling

Benn0

  • Im a lagging whore, if you see me in your server, PLEASE do not hesitate to kick me out! I HATE LAGGERZ ZOMG MORTORS!
  • LXA Duracell Postworm
  • ******
  • Schwartz: +33/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 910
  • 1117 credits
  • View Inventory
  • Send Money To Benn0
  • Amaranth
Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2008, 07:32:17 pm »
Get a good job?

Live a good life?

I don't know exactly how it is in the rest of the world, but I sure as hell thought that I got to choose enough what I wanted to learn and what I didn't want to learn. I.e. after primary school which consists of nine grades. The only restraint that I come tot think of are parents that want their kids to become doctors even though they'd rather become mechanics. So all in all, I like the Finnish school system.

The education system is totally wrong, at least in Ukraine, so I agree with Des. You've got some stupid things to learn, which you don't need ever in your life, and you should learn them anyway, the main argument why is the teacher's authority, which doesn't work for kids. In institute the teachers were more friendly at least, the attitude there was like "you've got that 20 questions at exam, memorize that 10 pages in a book and you can forget them after exam", but the rules are still the same.
I don't know what alternative could be here, but I think just giving the students some real-world task to do and free access to library/Wikipedia will produce better results here. The problem here is picking the task that would be interesting for student, and not so huge that student will lose interest to it.
You complain about 10 pages? But it depends on what it is. Which subject(s) do you find useless?
I might as well add that I found the P.E. lessons to be incredibly useless, not because I dislike sports but because the teacher wasn't and isn't qualified imo.

Marxism or Communism looks good on paper, if we overlook the point that we're all human. It doesn't work! CCCP was proof enough, even though it wasn't totally communistic.
Logged
Donate rice, improve your vocabulary

Check out Outlawz - The Movie in my profile or directly on Youtube

Hermod

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2008, 08:28:54 pm »
In my opinon there shoulden't be grades at all. In my school for example, they focus so much on the grades, so they forget about actually teaching us stuff.

I think you should be able to choose what you want to learn in primary school. (7th, 8th, 9th), (like high school)

Logged

Tafka

Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2008, 08:37:34 pm »
Yea I don't like grades either. They are so unfair for one too.

Period marks are put by medium grade.

If you have 5 3 3 you will get a 4, but if you have 3 3 5 you will get a 3 too.

5 5 4 3 = 4, but then 3 3 4 4 = 4 too.

So if a smarter student gets better grades, and has a bit bad luck, then stupider student with good luck gets the same grade together. It feels a bit bad, since I am usually the smarter student with bad luck.. :(

*Gyogyi*

  • AoG sucks compares to Osp, I know it, but I just act like AoG is better. I also have a crush on Bart.
  • LXA Duracell Postworm
  • ******
  • Schwartz: +37/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 995
  • 2593 credits
  • View Inventory
  • Send Money To *Gyogyi*
  • Jordy and myself in August--RETIRED
Re: Do good school grades and youngster's illness have affiliation?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2008, 11:48:44 pm »
Yea I don't like grades either. They are so unfair for one too.

Period marks are put by medium grade.

If you have 5 3 3 you will get a 4, but if you have 3 3 5 you will get a 3 too.

5 5 4 3 = 4, but then 3 3 4 4 = 4 too.

So if a smarter student gets better grades, and has a bit bad luck, then stupider student with good luck gets the same grade together. It feels a bit bad, since I am usually the smarter student with bad luck.. :(

Being smarter gives you the chance to understand things better,  but its still true, you wont get the better grades by trusting your logic skills only :P


The education system is totally wrong, at least in Ukraine, so I agree with Des. You've got some stupid things to learn, which you don't need ever in your life, and you should learn them anyway, the main argument why is the teacher's authority, which doesn't work for kids. In institute the teachers were more friendly at least, the attitude there was like "you've got that 20 questions at exam, memorize that 10 pages in a book and you can forget them after exam", but the rules are still the same.
I don't know what alternative could be here, but I think just giving the students some real-world task to do and free access to library/Wikipedia will produce better results here. The problem here is picking the task that would be interesting for student, and not so huge that student will lose interest to it.



It sounds interesting, howerver It isnt a problem IMO that you learn or somewhat forced to learn stuff you are not as interested in as in some other one. This way you get to know at least something about those things, which makes your personal knowledge wiser, which will help you in the real world. You could hate it, but at the end its useful. It also has something to do with improving your memorising skills and more functions like that:).
I have to admit that, it makes you feel extremely shit, to study something which isnt what you like, if the teacher is  rude, or makes no sense at all :P.

Anyway I find that to be interesting how the "western" way of education works compared to the Eastern one. I think I can surely say that the "western method" which is used in for example the USA, Canada, England makes people to know the thing they like, or they prefer to study much better in general. But the Eastern method results people with wider thinking and gives them more aspects by which they are able to take a look on  world's matters.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 11:51:47 pm by *Gyogyi* »
Logged
-
create your own brute here: http://kicsidzsiii.mybrute.com  (by this u also help me:)
Pages: [1]   Go Up