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Author Topic: Plans/directions of OLX development  (Read 5653 times)

Tafka

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #180 on: July 07, 2009, 02:12:52 am »
Quote from: Albert
Do you want to have
a) a perfect LieroX 0.56? or
b) a perfect Liero clone?
Basically, it's A for me. I played only 1 game of original liero with not so good friend of mine when I didn't have PC yet. Unlike many others I started straight away from LieroX. I liked that game that's why I played it for so long, I couldn't care any less if it was a Liero clone or just a self made-up game, the thing was that I liked it.

Yes, I tried OLX even today again, and I couldn't even start a game with it, and I can't even describe it in a bug report.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 02:23:00 am by Tafka »
- Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

albert

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #181 on: July 07, 2009, 02:26:25 am »
Quote from: Albert
Do you want to have
a) a perfect LieroX 0.56? or
b) a perfect Liero clone?
Basically, it's A for me. I played only 1 game of original liero with not so good friend of mine when I didn't have PC yet. Unlike many others I started straight away from LieroX. I liked that game that's why I played it for so long, I couldn't care any less if it was a Liero clone or just a self made-up game, the thing was that I liked it.

I didn't esp. meant the original Liero here, nor Holez or any other specific game. I meant it just as general, a Liero-like game, or Worms in realtime, or however you like to call it.

I think that it doesn't make that much sense to seperate Liero-like games even into sub categories. You wouldn't even be able to shortly describe it. For example, with some simple words, describe the difference between Gusanos / Liero. What makes it a totally different game? (I don't mean technic details here, nor GUI nor masterservers.)

Yes, I tried OLX even today again, and I couldn't even start a game with it, and I can't even describe it in a bug report.

Very funny.

I guess you got the power since you are the developer, the heck with players, right? You'll get plenty of new players with all the features.

I don't really get what you want. You don't want to help with fixing bugs (thus make a stable LX56) nor want to have new people to play with.

Tafka

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #182 on: July 07, 2009, 02:33:40 am »
Very funny what? I meant it in 100% seriousness, we had games against Axe, I went to server and said OK go, but nothing appeared, waited 5 sec and then left, went back still same. Then I went back and it spammed the message 1000 times, and still same, I left. I came back and it started, when all in the game froze (like timeout), I left and it started all over. I tried making a video but I couldn't.

It's not about few bugs that bother me anyway, it's just the whole thing itself. But eh, you know, I don't care that much anyway, just trying to explain what people want (older LX generation, including me). You want one we want other, we try to tell one thing you argue against it and so it's been going on for ages. Nothing we say or do is gonna change it anyway?
- Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

albert

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #183 on: July 07, 2009, 02:39:43 am »
Very funny what? I meant it in 100% seriousness, we had games against Axe, I went to server and said OK go, but nothing appeared, waited 5 sec and then left, went back still same. Then I went back and it spammed the message 1000 times, and still same, I left. I came back and it started, when all in the game froze (like timeout), I left and it started all over. I tried making a video but I couldn't.

Ah, so you are able to make a bug report. You just did it. Whereby it would have been easier if you would have posted that on SF.

It seems pretty much like incompatible old pre-beta9-server to me but not sure.

Please post that on SF and let's try to break it down more. I also need console output.

It's not about few bugs that bother me anyway, it's just the whole thing itself. But eh, you know, I don't care that much anyway, just trying to explain what people want (older LX generation, including me). You want one we want other, we try to tell one thing you argue against it and so it's been going on for ages. Nothing we say or do is gonna change it anyway?

You still didn't said *anything* which changed for you. If you are not able to say anything, it really seems to me that at most it could be about some small details but almost not describeable as you are pointing out.

Ruki

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #184 on: July 07, 2009, 09:58:21 am »
Thanks. We will ask you further questions there to track the specific problems down because right now I am not sure exactly about the problems. Some other problems are already fixed or are already reported.
You're welcome.

Sure. I never said that. :) I also never read that out of these stats.

But I also must have understood you wrong (or perhaps also others here). I thought it was said that most people stick to old LX56. I thought "most people" != "oldies" here.
As I said, many older players stick to either LieroX 0,56b, LieroX Pro, patched LieroX 0,56b or early version of OLX which doesn't have many new features. Newcomers have some latest version, of course.

So you are saying that we should change our priorities? To what? So that bug fixing / stability is more important than new features? Well, to repeat myself another time, it's already like that and 95% of the work is spent for this.
I'm saying you should revert back to beta 3 for example and fix that to be more stable, or start from scratch, I don't know what is better since I'm not developing OLX, just make an updated version of LieroX 0,56b which is stable and bug free.

Btw., as you (and some few others here) are repeating again and again that they just want to have a stable LX56, I start to wonder a bit about the overall vision.

Do you want to have
a) a perfect LieroX 0.56? or
b) a perfect Liero-like game? (take the best out of original Liero, LX, Gusanos and similar games)
I want to have a perfect LieroX 0.56. I played Liero long long time ago but for like 6 years I am playing LieroX. If I wanted something which is more like Liero, I would have tried other clones. Again, this is not a Liero community, this is LieroX community. We are playing LieroX, not Liero. I don't know why somebody came to this game or how they came, but I believe for older players it's the same, we want LieroX, not Liero or something so much different than LieroX.

Because I still stick to b, that was also my goal two years ago (after I realised that I will do more for this project than just port it over to Linux).
Don't you think by now it should be already clear this is not what the community is about?

No. Absolutly wrong (and always was). We never deleted anything. Everything we ever did was adding and generalising. We never wanted to delete anything.

If you find something missing, it is a bug. Please fill in a bug and we will fix it. So easy.
You are about to delete the compatibility. I found something missing, but I can't report it really. I found a heart missing in OLX which was present in LieroX, a soul which attracts older players to play it. That is missing and you are ruining the community for older players with every new feature you create. You already reached the limit of what is good to be included in LieroX, again, now it is about changing the game, not just updating it anymore.

What do you mean??

1. It's not incompatible. And any further ForceNewVersion option (which is perhaps activated by default) is only artificial. Perhaps this option is hardcoded later but you could still remove it from the code and it will be compatible. Whereby I see this pretty much senseless (if we are so far to have that hardcoded).

2. It's by far more compatible and fair correct LX56 gameplay than LX56 itself was.

3. LX56 was not stable.

4. OLX has far less bugs than LX56.
1. So far it is not incompatible but as already mentioned in this thread several times, soon it will come to this...
2. I agree with that. If only there wouldn't be so many bugs preventing me from using it properly.
3. That is why there should be an update, yes?
4. It might have far less bugs for you as a developer, for me as a player it has more bugs.

When I read such shit, I start to feel that you are totally ignorant. Not only about the development of OLX but also about the effort. It's like you are complaining that we put so much work into OLX and this could stop perhaps once. Learn coding and join the devleopment team. It's so easy. If you are not willing to put this effort, you cannot really give any complaint here about when and how much and how long we will work on OLX. Btw., you are working hard to make development on OLX really annoying.
I am exactly the same much ignorant as you are about what older players want. For one I do care what is going on with OLX as you could have noticed, that is why I'm replying to your posts when others stopped long ago or never even bothered. Why I can't give such thoughts? Because I'm not one of the developers myself? I'm a member of this community as well, I'm a player, I take care of other things which don't involve programming but are involving whole community. I can tell you that you should learn how this community works then. Stop talking about effort, I put and still am putting a lot of my effort into this community and game but you might don't see it since you only stick to the code and have no idea about what is going on in the community. I'm actively following to this community for like 6 years, Albert so lets not start with the subject. Do I make it as much annoying as you are making this game to old players? If that so, it is good that we finally reached the same level. I believe most of the old players were glad and excited to help you but by not listening to them you brought this upon yourself on your own.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 09:59:54 am by Ruki »

Tafka

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #185 on: July 07, 2009, 10:58:52 am »
Very funny what? I meant it in 100% seriousness, we had games against Axe, I went to server and said OK go, but nothing appeared, waited 5 sec and then left, went back still same. Then I went back and it spammed the message 1000 times, and still same, I left. I came back and it started, when all in the game froze (like timeout), I left and it started all over. I tried making a video but I couldn't.

Ah, so you are able to make a bug report. You just did it. Whereby it would have been easier if you would have posted that on SF.

It seems pretty much like incompatible old pre-beta9-server to me but not sure.

Please post that on SF and let's try to break it down more. I also need console output.

It's not about few bugs that bother me anyway, it's just the whole thing itself. But eh, you know, I don't care that much anyway, just trying to explain what people want (older LX generation, including me). You want one we want other, we try to tell one thing you argue against it and so it's been going on for ages. Nothing we say or do is gonna change it anyway?

You still didn't said *anything* which changed for you. If you are not able to say anything, it really seems to me that at most it could be about some small details but almost not describeable as you are pointing out.

It's pretty bad for a bug report, no? Doesn't explain very well imo anyway.

Whole 2 threads have been what changed for all already, listen to Ruki or whoever else. One bug which really annoyed was in source forge already when I checked, other I explained.
- Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

IRC

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #186 on: July 07, 2009, 11:08:44 am »
As I pointed out earlier is that Liero is suppose to be simple, thats the beutie of it. That's at least why I started. I've tried updating and and playing the new OLX, but the physics isn't the same and the the game feeling is just gone.

I think a good idea would be to do as Ruki says about fixing old lx stable first, then u can have OLX as its own project.
Cop is my legacy.

Tafka

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #187 on: July 07, 2009, 12:03:27 pm »
Btw one thing I'd like to ask about, is it really important to have favourites in OLX? There's basically no servers some part of the day, you can add by IP in normal server list too, and there's only 1 dedicated server which everyone can see without favourites too. It's more useful when there's 100's of servers, but right now, it's useless? I came to this when I saw the huge Add to favourites button in lobby.
- Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

albert

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #188 on: July 07, 2009, 02:58:50 pm »
Quote
Quote
So you are saying that we should change our priorities? To what? So that bug fixing / stability is more important than new features? Well, to repeat myself another time, it's already like that and 95% of the work is spent for this.

I'm saying you should revert back to beta 3 for example and fix that to be more stable, or start from scratch, I don't know what is better since I'm not developing OLX, just make an updated version of LieroX 0,56b which is stable and bug free.

If you mean better in the sense what would require less work to make it more stable, we have done by far the best progress in very latest SVN.

Please, how often do I have to repeat myself here?

Why don't you just learn coding and join our team? I can help you at learning coding. There are also many great tutorials out there. Coding is something very simple. I can also help you in getting familiar with the OLX code.

Quote
4. It might have far less bugs for you as a developer, for me as a player it has more bugs.

Report them and we will fix them. Don't use this invalid argument again and again. If there are bugs which are reported, we will fix them.

Quote
Do I make it as much annoying as you are making this game to old players? If that so, it is good that we finally reached the same level. I believe most of the old players were glad and excited to help you but by not listening to them you brought this upon yourself on your own.

Please, in what part didn't I listened to you? I am listening very carefull to everybody here. Not only listening, I am also thinking about every single bit which was said here.

Read some of my previous posts. One problem is, that a lot of you people want different things. I pointed that out already.

More or less I am exactly working on what you want, just that you always are saying I should do it otherwise (because it seems that you don't really have an idea on what we are working).

albert

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #189 on: July 07, 2009, 03:26:59 pm »
I splitted the topic about C++ learning. I will give some answer there. :)

Quote
I found something missing, but I can't report it really. I found a heart missing in OLX which was present in LieroX, a soul which attracts older players to play it.

That's somehow blah to me. Please think a bit about the difference and name it.

If it is about the whole menu and the way you are setting up games etc., refer to the new frontend team (talk to DC or Run).

If physics behaves different, give an example (or try to explain it somehow or at least something) and report it.

If there is some other bug, report it.

What else could there be what doesn't fit into those categories? (And what's not just superstition or something.)

Quote
Quote
Quote
.., we had games against Axe, I went to server and said OK go, but nothing appeared, waited 5 sec and then left, went back still same. Then I went back and it spammed the message 1000 times, and still same, I left. I came back and it started, when all in the game froze (like timeout), I left and it started all over. I tried making a video but I couldn't.

Ah, so you are able to make a bug report. You just did it. Whereby it would have been easier if you would have posted that on SF.

It seems pretty much like incompatible old pre-beta9-server to me but not sure.

Please post that on SF and let's try to break it down more. I also need console output.

It's pretty bad for a bug report, no? Doesn't explain very well imo anyway.

No, it's ok. Some report is better than no report. If we are missing some information, we will ask for it.

In this case, I also need the console output because most probably the problem can be seen there.

Quote
As I pointed out earlier is that Liero is suppose to be simple, thats the beutie of it.

One goal of the frontend team is to make it even more simple than it ever was. Btw., with my work on the game settings dialog yesterday, it's already as simple as in LX56 I think.

Quote
That's at least why I started. I've tried updating and and playing the new OLX, but the physics isn't the same and the the game feeling is just gone.

It's all already fixed. Please stop repeating this again and again. If you see some difference in latest revision, report it.

albert

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #190 on: July 08, 2009, 02:22:54 am »
I think a new EXE with my recent changes to the game settings menu is online.

MissingNo.

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #191 on: July 08, 2009, 04:13:42 am »
The gameplay is exactly the same as the old crappy .56. There's no differences other than the ones in your heads. Anything that makes you feel that OLX is inferior is in your head. I've tried the patch, .56, all the betas. I'm not just blowing smoke.
Desmond: My Antidrug

IRC

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #192 on: July 08, 2009, 09:45:01 am »


Quote
That's at least why I started. I've tried updating and and playing the new OLX, but the physics isn't the same and the the game feeling is just gone.

It's all already fixed. Please stop repeating this again and again. If you see some difference in latest revision, report it.
[/quote]

I can't even get the New one to work. I can host and all but both the Mod and Lvl fields are blank, so I can't start, and its like that even tho I have plenty of mods and lvls.
Cop is my legacy.

albert

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #193 on: July 08, 2009, 11:02:02 am »
Quote
Quote
That's at least why I started. I've tried updating and and playing the new OLX, but the physics isn't the same and the the game feeling is just gone.

It's all already fixed. Please stop repeating this again and again. If you see some difference in latest revision, report it.

I can't even get the New one to work. I can host and all but both the Mod and Lvl fields are blank, so I can't start, and its like that even tho I have plenty of mods and lvls.

Can you post that in the SF bug tracker? Please also post the console output (the file stdout.txt).

IRC

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #194 on: July 08, 2009, 08:01:24 pm »
Too much work, besides dont got it installed anymore. B8 is the last version I can play with.
Cop is my legacy.

albert

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #195 on: July 08, 2009, 08:36:55 pm »
Too much work, besides dont got it installed anymore. B8 is the last version I can play with.

It's important that you report that with console output on SF if you want to have that problem removed in the final release.

What is the problem with installing? You don't need to install anything. Just copy over the EXE.

MissingNo.

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #196 on: July 08, 2009, 08:44:33 pm »
The newest revision works fine for me. I can host and it shows all of my mods and levels. I haven't really thorougly checked it out though, but I haven't had any bugs thus far.
Desmond: My Antidrug

~:DarkFxodusPrime:~

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #197 on: August 05, 2009, 02:20:20 am »
Sorry for Digging Up This Thread from its Grave
 but I've thought about a few modifications to be possibly engineered into the game.

   First off Brilliant New Features since .exe Revisions
 ~----------------------------------------------------------------~

- 1280 x 980 - Display or Custom Parameter

- Custom # of Weapons 1 - 15

- Character Spawn Points (Map Colour Markers?) for "Levels"

- Map Placed, Animated "Killers"     ^     Incl. in Mod.  eg. moving saw  ;D

- Dead Zones. Like "Falling". Makes a good use for the Ninja Rope  :) Or Health Zone.

- Visual Weapons While Choosing ( Picture of Grenade.png )

- Map Reading (For Large Long Levels, in Parameters without Action)

- CPU Triggers? (Only Attacks when Player 1 Reaches Point 1) Animation Triggers? (Time Point for Event or Event on Object to Object)

If anyone can meet the Challenge to Incorporate Any of These Idea's, I can see Large Increase in Population and Easy Customization to Game Play for the Users. Furthering the Overall Enjoyment of OpenLiero X.

 8) 

pelya

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #198 on: August 05, 2009, 02:20:01 pm »
Sorry for Digging Up This Thread from its Grave
 but I've thought about a few modifications to be possibly engineered into the game.

If you really want to do some grave digging reply to this thread - it has some features you want listed inside.
Quote
- 1280 x 980 - Display or Custom Parameter

That's planned for Beta10.

Quote
- Custom # of Weapons 1 - 15

Long-term TODO, also planned for Beta10

Quote
- Character Spawn Points (Map Colour Markers?) for "Levels"

Planned for Beta10.

Quote
- Map Placed, Animated "Killers"     ^     Incl. in Mod.  eg. moving saw  ;D

- Dead Zones. Like "Falling". Makes a good use for the Ninja Rope  :) Or Health Zone.

- CPU Triggers? (Only Attacks when Player 1 Reaches Point 1) Animation Triggers? (Time Point for Event or Event on Object to Object)

Scripted levels are planned in far future, maybe after Beta10.

Quote
- Visual Weapons While Choosing ( Picture of Grenade.png )
Not possible.

Quote
- Map Reading (For Large Long Levels, in Parameters without Action)
What do you mean by that?

Quote
If anyone can meet the Challenge to Incorporate Any of These Idea's, I can see Large Increase in Population and Easy Customization to Game Play for the Users. Furthering the Overall Enjoyment of OpenLiero X.

Yeye, sure :) .

~:DarkFxodusPrime:~

Re: Plans/directions of OLX development
« Reply #199 on: August 05, 2009, 09:31:28 pm »

Quote
- Map Reading (For Large Long Levels, in Parameters without Action)
Quote
What do you mean by that?

With the Idea's above I would like to create Scenario's, like actual levels.
All Players start at the Beginning Point. Lets say on a 1280-10200  Wide Long Level, Users that Reach Scripted Points would "Buffer" The next 3 "Rooms" of 960 Pixels. Rather then Loading the whole level.

Overall for performance of scene's I would like to create, like a mini-boss stonegolem swinging from the roof, speaking, and then engaging in battle with numerous "killers" like fire at a damage rate. That would take up alot of memory to load inspontaneously especially If I Plan to Host the Level and accept numerous Challenger's to reach the end point and beat the boss.    Kind of like an Adventure mode of Olx
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